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Necromis
Lifeless on my Boat
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 752
Location: USA
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 Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:32 am Post subject: |
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I think you are right, it is more of semantics. The way I look at it Agnostics think the theory is possible, but want fact to confirm it law. Theists believe their theory is fact and confirmed law. Atheists feel that the Theists theory is unfounded, supported by no imperical data and there for must be false.
At least these are my takes on it. I think it is gonna be interpreted differently by whomever looks at the 3 in this manner. |
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linuxdoctor
Infallible Persona
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 1247
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| voltare wrote: | | Atheism is a belief that God positively does not exist. |
Therein lies atheism's problem. One can never prove that God does not exist, only disprove any purported proofs. Even after all available hypothetical proofs have been hypothetically disproved, one can still not say absolutely that God does not exist because sometime in the future another proof of God's existence might appear.
That is why I say that atheism is a negative faith. It relies solely on disproof of any proofs of God. That in turn makes atheism an entirely unscientific belief. A scientist is, by definition, a skeptic who withholds judgments without evidence. Failing evidence, a good scientist is forced to answer, "I do not know." Atheists, in asserting a 'positive denial' in the existence of God are, despite claims otherwise, very bad scientists.
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Misanthrope: someone who realizes that humans really are as stupid as they appear.
If you think I'm 'politically' incorrect you have the wrong politics. |
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Necromis
Lifeless on my Boat
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 752
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Wouldn't it be more that Theists are trying to prove something that by its very nature is unprovable and Atheists are simply debunkers of the Theists theory? |
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linuxdoctor
Infallible Persona
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 1247
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Just because science is incapable of proving the existence of God does not mean that God's existence can not be proved. One just cannot use science to do it. The Church, in fact, insists that God's existence can at least be inferred from nature, if we set aside for the moment that God has already revealed himself to man in revelation.
As to your use of the word 'debunking' when referring atheists, that is not really the correct word. That word is used in reference to explanations to observed phenomenon. When one debunks something we attempts to find an alternate, presumably more plausible, explanation for an observed phenomenon that was explained in an improbable manner.
In the case of God, this would be miracles. Miracles are physical phenomenon that have no explanation expect by divine intervention. One can debunk miracles by demonstrating a plausible physical explanation. More fashionable implausible explanations are attributing certain unexplained phenomenon to extra terrestrial visitors. To debunk those one attempts to show a terrestrial explanation for them.
In both cases, however, one cannot disprove the existence of either God or extra terrestrials by debunking associated phenomenon typically attributed to them. The most one can say is that this particular miracle was not accomplished by divine intervention or that particular UFO sighting has a terrestrial origin. There will always be another miracle or UFO sighting in the future and perhaps they could not be explained except by divine intervention or by extra terrestrial interference. Either way, debunking miracles or showing terrestrial origins for UFO phenomenon will never convince believers in either.
The most debunking can accomplish is to show, or attempt to show, that there is some other explanation for something. It is not proof of the existence or nonexistence of the alleged divine or extra terrestrial origin.
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Misanthrope: someone who realizes that humans really are as stupid as they appear.
If you think I'm 'politically' incorrect you have the wrong politics. |
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pharmer4
Metallica Fanatic
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1886
Location: Deniliquin, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:47 am Post subject: |
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agnostics are not convinced that god does not exist, nor are they convinced that god does not exist.
athiests believe that god does not exist.
I'm an apethiest - i don't care if she exists at all.
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blightyred
Savant Poster
Joined: 12 May 2007
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| pharmer4 wrote: | | agnostics are not convinced that god does not exist, nor are they convinced that god does not exist. |
But are they convinced that god does not exist or that god does not exist?
I am being facetious of course 
The world's 'leading' atheist Professor Richard Dawkins in his wonderful, amazing, thought provoking and uplifting book 'The God Delusion', uses a scale of 1 to 7, to quantify belief.
1 being 'I am positive that God exists.
7 being I am positive that God does not exist.
He himself acknowledges the the highest ( or lowest dependent on your polarity) you can score on this scale is a 6, I am virtually positive that God does not exist.
Anyone claiming to be either a 1 or a 7 is bordering on fundamentalism. Someone who scores 1 is liable to fly a plane into a skyscraper, someone who scores a 7 is liable to be obnoxious and annoying.
Whether evolution is right or wrong, it allows room for a God, just not the one of the bible. If the Bible is right it does not allow for science and evolution. This for me is the clincher. Whilst we acknowledge that some things are un-knowable, we must therefore as curious sentient beings explore the path that allows for this.
Evolution allows us to follow this path, strict adherence to scripture does not. |
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Jaxle
Novice Poster
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:17 am Post subject: |
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OMG I had to stop after reading only a page of this mess. Are you kidding me? I mean really the original poster is posting information he found on the web, almost all of the info is debatable. but what kills me the most is this,
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mr.x wrote:
And remember a law is proven.
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When I read this I spit out my drink and almost choked on the air i was sucking in when I was laughing. Let me explain why I find this statement so funny.
First off you are obviously a creationist because you attempted to debunk other theories such as Evolution and Big Bang. And to hear a creationist say that a scientific law is proven fact just makes me chuckle. And even better it was said in reference to a sorely misinterpreted law of Thermodynamics. The way you interpreted the law ( that means the half a paragraph you posted in the same paragraph as the actual law) Would in a sense disprove all the advancement made in the past 10 years of genetic science. I wont say what I am talking about I'll just let you look it up for yourself.
On a side note, no one has said that Evolution is real, its a theory, but do not be mistaken so is Creationism. The thing that gets me is creationism is based on faith alone and has given no proof of its existence at all with the exception of writings of MEN who claimed to be inspired by god or gods.
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10.big bang theory
If this big bang theory happened. You would expect that there would be other forms of life all over the universe, yet the earth is perfect for life. If it was 1% further away from the sun, there would be no life. The moon is need to support life here on earth to. And with all of these programs looking for intelligent life out in space, we have found nothing. Like seti( Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) have found no radio signals, and we give off millions.
Actually, we've found tons of radio signals. They just haven't been broadcast by living things (to our knowledge). |
I am not even gonna comment on the lack of research you done here, instead I shall post a few links for you to read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal
http://www.spacetoday.org/SolS.....Radio.html
http://science.hq.nasa.gov/kid.....radio.html
I could go on all day but you get the idea.
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