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Scar Lifeless Person

Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 6111 Location: Chuck Norris's nightmares.
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:32 am Post subject: all sins are equal |
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When I was in a group home, we were forced to either goto Church or watch church on tv (all Christian stuff, which i think is illegal for force kids to watch or goto) anyways this one preacher back then said all sins are equal.
does anyone really believe that?
Do you really think that murdering someone is the same as stealing 15 cent candy in Gods eyes?
I really do not believe this. I believe sins are based on evil and if you are evil enough to kill someone, you belong in hell. Someone who steals candy doesn't belong in hell in my opinion. _________________ http://www.damnidunno.com | http://www.mjhq.net | http://www.rebx.net |
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clpo13 Zarkin' frood

Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 1210 Location: Washington
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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On the other hand, one could reason that killing someone is no worse than stealing candy, which doesn't seem very bright either. But hey, I don't believe in sin anyways, so it doesn't much matter to me. _________________ "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." --Thomas Jefferson
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userfriendly Master Poster
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 171 Location: illinois
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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I tend to not look at it like that. "Sinning" was an idea someone came up with a long long time ago, to scare people into having morals.. Brilliant idea it was.. because if people can't realize on their own, that they shouldn't kill people, they shouldn't steal, lie, rape, cheat,.. whatever.. they need to find out some how. If they believe that they are going to some sort of hell if they don't follow these rules.. whatever. As long as they aren't hurting anybody.
I think its stupid though when people take it to a whole new level.. when everything becomes a sin. Lust.. c'mon. It's a basic human .. emotion? You see an attractive member of the opposite sex, or the same sex.. I guess depending which way you swing.. and you have that thought for a split second.. Oops.. you're going to hell now. Idiots.
I guess over the years the idea of 'sinning' stopped being for people to be good to each other, and started being a good way of turning them into sheep. _________________ i heart boobs. |
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John Ryan Grandmaster Poster

Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 318
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | When I was in a group home, we were forced to either goto Church or watch church on tv (all Christian stuff, which i think is illegal for force kids to watch or goto) anyways this one preacher back then said all sins are equal.
does anyone really believe that?
Do you really think that murdering someone is the same as stealing 15 cent candy in Gods eyes?
I really do not believe this. I believe sins are based on evil and if you are evil enough to kill someone, you belong in hell. Someone who steals candy doesn't belong in hell in my opinion. |
I have five-hundred plus posts on a Christian forum, where I was debating numerous different types of Christian, ergo I believe I can tell you what the hell these Christian are talking about.
Christians do not believe all sins are equally evil. Rather, they believe any amount of sin is imperfect, and therefore unholy in God's Eyes. Christians believe that if a person has one flaw (he is imperfect as we all are) God must send said person to Hell for all eternity, for not being as perfect as God is. Sucks does it not? But this is Christianity in a nutshell. In Mainstream Christendom, you go to hell for being imperfect. Killers and homosexuals all get the same Hell; one man killed, the other just loved.
It seems as though you do not believe everything your pastor is telling you, you still believe in Hell. I ask you to reconsider this believe. Meditate on it for a while. Does a killer who's crime is finite, deserve to be punished infinitely. How is that justice?
| Quote: | | On the other hand, one could reason that killing someone is no worse than stealing candy, which doesn't seem very bright either. But hey, I don't believe in sin anyways, so it doesn't much matter to me. |
I believe in Sin, but not from a Christian perspective. To me Sin is imperfection. It is something we all live under. Sin is missing the mark. _________________ No heaven's not a place that you go when you die. It's that moment in life when you touch her and you feel alive. |
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Xtreme Lifeless Person

Joined: 14 Aug 2004 Posts: 1311 Location: New Orleans, LA, USA
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Christians believe that if a person has one flaw (he is imperfect as we all are) God must send said person to Hell for all eternity, for not being as perfect as God is. Sucks does it not? But this is Christianity in a nutshell. In Mainstream Christendom, you go to hell for being imperfect. |
This is not very accurate. Orthodox Christianity teaches that a person with even one flaw that he clings to cannot bring himself to enter God's complete prescence. It isn't that God shuns someone with sin, it's that if we allow ourselves to maintain a grip on the chains that bind us to our sin, we cannot ever truly allow ourselves to love God with all of our being. Loving God completely for all eternity and perfectly knowing His love is essentially heaven. Therefore, this being our ultimate purpose, we will experience what we call "hell" if we eternally choose to do something besides love God completely. It's that simple. It's not that God pushes us away if we sin, it's that by sinning we MUST step away from God.
It is impossible for us to be totally holy and sin at the same time; the two conditions cannot be present within a human person. In order to sin, we must deny an amount of holiness in our lives. To love God completely, we must be perfect in the sense that we must give ourselves totally to God, letting nothing obstruct our love for Him and thus for others, who are created in His image.
| Quote: | | Killers and homosexuals all get the same Hell; one man killed, the other just loved. |
Both murder and acts of homosexuality deny God for the same fundamental reasons. Namely pride. Seeing pride in murder is obvious. It is perhaps less apparent in homosexual acts, but if, for merely one example, you consider that homosexual acts must take place outside of marriage since the Church sanctions no such marriage, then homosexual acts imply direct and blatant disobedience to the eternal sacrament of marriage established by God Himself as symbolized by the union of Adam and Even in Genesis (regardless of their literal or figurative nature, which is irrelevant for this argument). Because the sacrament of marriage is a natural one, established even in the earliest beginnings of man, the sexual act only truly glorifies God when it is open to both its procreative and its unitive aspects. Homosexual acts are neither procreative nor truly unitive and are therefore illicit; just as heterosexual acts outside of marriage are similarly not unitieve and heterosexual acts involving contraception are, again, neither procreative nor truly unitive.
And so, you see, it's not a question of mere Church doctrine. The Church teaches not at random, but based on faith AND reason. It is very possible to use either to develop fairly effective theology, but when used in tandem, these two truly glorify God. |
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wellingtonboots Lifeless Person

Joined: 02 Dec 2005 Posts: 471 Location: London
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voltare Lifeless Person

Joined: 26 Jun 2004 Posts: 568 Location: Austin, Texas
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, there needs to be a few lines drawn.
First, the concept of Sin as Christians consider it, is something along the lines of making that person 'unclean.' We are all born with 'original sin (according to Catholics anyway) and only through acceptance of Jesus Christ, and confessing our sins, might we enter the presence of God in His Holy Kingdom. Any and all sins make us 'unclean' and thus dying without sins on our conscience will send us to purgatory. (A note here, I'm not Catholic, nor Christian, so if there's a different stance on Catholic doctrine, by all means correct me.)
Outside of Catholicism, Christians in general don't typically confess sins, but rather privately ask for the forgiveness of God through Jesus Christ. Without this confession to Jesus for our sins, than we are doomed to an eternity in Hell, even if we simply stole a sucker from a shop when we were four years old. Again, these are organized church doctrines, not common beliefs.
The theory behind these doctrines isn't to punish everyone for the smallest mistake. The idea is to encourage good behavior, and focus on doing good - not evil. A missionary living in a grass hut in the rain forest teaching Christianity isn't going to likely have a pile of sins to confess each day, unlike (say) a bishop who must routinely make decisions in the face of the temptations of a cosmopolitan and bougouis world.
By teaching 'all sin is equal' a moral line is drawn between acceptable and unacceptable behavior. You don't enter heaven by any number of good acts. You only enter heaven free from bad acts - but as any parent knows, children who aren't doing something good, are doing something bad. By setting the focus on doing good things, and admitting mistakes, it is hoped that by the end of one's life, they will have learned how to live their lives within God's law, and by avoiding sin whenever possible, they have managed to live a good life.
In short, by doing the best a Christian can do, they won't come face to face with the devil very often. On the occasions they are tempted to sin, their efforts to avoid it will be rewarded in heaven.
From a broader, non-religious perspective, it is simply a means of preventing the sort of chaos and disorder that can occur in a society where stealing grains of rice turn into stealing warehouses of televisions. Either a society functions because there is law, or it crumbles because there is no law. The exceptions are few and far between. _________________ [img:3378ced9c2]http://www.vv3b.com/img/forumbanner.png[/img:3378ced9c2] |
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marinaroz Grey Scaled

Joined: 04 Mar 2004 Posts: 2765 Location: Israel
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Like some other people here, I don't believe in the concept of sin. I believe that crimes are against people, not against a god. As for worth, surely not that all bad deeds have the same weight and they shouldn't carry equal consequences. _________________ Tarakana NET |
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Vipralion Lifeless Person

Joined: 04 Feb 2005 Posts: 855
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Sins equal?
One sin will send you to hell?
Stealing a 15 cent piece of candy will send you to hell?
That is absolutely ridiculous. Both actions and thoughts could be considered sins. We cannot control our actions or thoughts all the time. The slightest movement or word whispered nearby can conjure any number of thoughts in a person's mind. Fault cannot be placed on the person for thinking sinful thoughts.
Actions can be greatly influenced by emotion and basic animal instinct inherit within all human beings. A man who sees his wife with another man could spark a chain reaction of events all beginning with a primal instinct.
The concept of sins in Christianity definitely is an idea used to promote moral values. In fact, the Ten Commandments can be viewed as a set of guidelines to define how life should be lived among others in times when those such as Moses lived. Rules to keep intact the lifestyle of groups of wanderers, nomads, whatever. _________________ [img:bd4240ba2d]http://gethalo3gear.com/signature/images/halo_signature_1.jpg[/img:bd4240ba2d] |
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voltare Lifeless Person

Joined: 26 Jun 2004 Posts: 568 Location: Austin, Texas
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, but under the 'all sins are equal' lie the beauty - an iron clad 'do the best you can, all the time.' This isn't such a bad way to live your life, but we all know the moment you allow exceptions, the rule becomes the exception. _________________ [img:3378ced9c2]http://www.vv3b.com/img/forumbanner.png[/img:3378ced9c2] |
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Grimoire Forum Regular

Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 439
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Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:43 am Post subject: |
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Sinning is not an idea someone came up with to scare people into having morals.
People developed morals naturally when they started to live in larger an larger groups. You cannot have a stable society with people going around stealing and murdering each other all the time, or just doing whatever they feel like doing.
Rules and punishments were introduced to help enforce this ideal, not religion and sin.
Religion stems from different roots.
Religions started as a way for weak, powerless and very simple ancient people, helpless in the face of nature, yet depending upon it for their survival. They couldn't control nature, yet they decided there must be powerful being or beings controlling it, it can't just be random they thought, because if it's random it gives them no hope.
However, if it's controlled by a god or gods, then at least they can try to get the favour of those gods by doing things that please the gods, and thereby control nature by proxy.
HOw do they figure out what things please the god?
Well, it's just trial and error. If it works, and the following year is a good one for the crops, or herds, of the rivers don't flood or whatever, then the things they did must have pleased the gods. If things go badly, then they obviously didn't sacrifice enough virgins or whatever, so they'll have to kill more for next year...
Later, the rules to enforce morality, and religion were mixed. The ten commandments are simply rules that already existed in society. It's not like everyone was a murderer before he bible said 'thou shalt not kill'.
After the idea of heaven and hell had been dreamed up, it's was a good extra incentive for people to behave - if they weren't already worried about physical punishments here on earth, they now had their eternal soul to think about as well. _________________ |
Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.
- Emil Zola |
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linuxdoctor Infallible Persona

Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 1203 Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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Not all sins are equal, as is clear from the Scriptures.
| 1 John 5:16 wrote: | | He that knoweth his brother to sin a sin which is not to death ... |
This passage obviously referrs to two kinds of sins, sins that are "to death" that is to say, mortal sins, and sins that are not "to death" what the Church calls venial sins.
All sins is a rebellion against God, but not all sins will cause us to loose eternal life, once granted to us through sanctifying grace. _________________ Misanthrope: someone who realizes that humans really are as stupid as they appear.
If you think I'm 'politically' incorrect you have the wrong politics. |
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clpo13 Zarkin' frood

Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 1210 Location: Washington
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Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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We all die anyways, so I don't see what the problem is. And the afterlife is something no one can claim to know about since none of us have ever been there, obviously. Can a book with dubious origins really be trusted to tell us what happens after we pass away? _________________ "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." --Thomas Jefferson
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slsc Gano Siempre!

Joined: 27 Jun 2003 Posts: 2604 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Grimoire wrote: | | Religions started as a way for weak, powerless and very simple ancient people, helpless in the face of nature, yet depending upon it for their survival. They couldn't control nature, yet they decided there must be powerful being or beings controlling it, it can't just be random they thought, because if it's random it gives them no hope. |
If you happen to run into a library in that world you live in, you might try to look for Religion Explained: The Evolutionary Origins of Religious Thought. From past conversations it's pretty obvious I'm not a proponent of evolution, but I figured the perspective of a secular analyst might help you out. So, instead of going through the argument, I suggest you actually study the histories (pluralized on purpose) of religion and realize that its anthropological roots and psychological inferences do not insist on religion being 'created' for the purpose of explaining nature. The very suggestion as that for an origin of religion shows a) initial bias against it, and b) an unwillingness to explore the very deep pscyhology of religion and what that means.
To the topic at hand: I needn't state much at all. I believe Xtreme has done a marvelous job in explaining the Christian perspective in saying:
| Xtreme wrote: | | Therefore, this being our ultimate purpose, we will experience what we call "hell" if we eternally choose to do something besides love God completely. It's that simple. It's not that God pushes us away if we sin, it's that by sinning we MUST step away from God. |
_________________ - David |
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clpo13 Zarkin' frood

Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 1210 Location: Washington
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Xtreme wrote: | | It's not that God pushes us away if we sin, it's that by sinning we MUST step away from God. |
That assumes that everyone naturally gravitates towards God. I find that hard to believe, speaking from experience. _________________ "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." --Thomas Jefferson
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