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LP-Trel
Zen
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 5966
Location: Nirvana by Boredom
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 Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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You two can debate at length about value this, price that, and so on. The simple fact of the matter is netbooks represent a need for notebooks that are cheap, durable, and small.
1) Cheap: A decently spec'd Eee PC is selling for $200 here in the states. 1.6GHz Atom, 1GB ram, 4GB SSD.
2) Durable: The Eee PC feels pretty sturdy and I don't think I'm going to crush it throwing it into a bag with other junk.
3) Small: These things are tiny compared to the full sized notebooks you're comparing them to.
I can see plenty of uses for one, but when you have smartphones that can do most of that without relying solely on a wifi connection or dedicated 3G connection in addition to your phone you can see the need for one diminish in some cases.
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Jacky
3.14159265358979323846264
Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 4175
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| LP-Trel wrote: | You two can debate at length about value this, price that, and so on. The simple fact of the matter is netbooks represent a need for notebooks that are cheap, durable, and small.
1) Cheap: A decently spec'd Eee PC is selling for $200 here in the states. 1.6GHz Atom, 1GB ram, 4GB SSD.
2) Durable: The Eee PC feels pretty sturdy and I don't think I'm going to crush it throwing it into a bag with other junk.
3) Small: These things are tiny compared to the full sized notebooks you're comparing them to.
I can see plenty of uses for one, but when you have smartphones that can do most of that without relying solely on a wifi connection or dedicated 3G connection in addition to your phone you can see the need for one diminish in some cases. |
Well I quite agree with your points. The important thing here is its small-factor.
Having a smartphone or a PDA may be handy but it can only do a fraction of a computer's job. Arming yourself with a small computer loaded with a PC OS is just better.
_________________
| ClickFanatic wrote: | Your nonsense make my forum visits rather brief, Jacky. It's like:
"Hey look, a reply notification!"
*click* *click*
*reading garbage*
"Oh it was Jacky again..."
*close* |
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LP-Trel
Zen
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 5966
Location: Nirvana by Boredom
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LP-SolidRaven
Evil Belgian Waffle
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 8144
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| Jacky wrote: | That really depends on region.
What's the cheapest price of a netbook or a nettop over there? |
€300
| Quote: | The thing is that for us we know that building our own PC is actually possible.
When I got my first PC I never knew that building my own PC was possible, I only knew that I got to buy them from those manufacturers. |
Then you didn't read enough. This is also why we have manuals by the way, they tend to tell you how to put a computer together.
| Quote: | | Normal PC as in those first-hand ones. People don't really go for second-hand stuff unless they are hard up on money. |
I'm not talking about second hand computers. They have an over supply of 2 year old hardware that has never been used cause of vista.
| Quote: | The dollar is not in US currency by the way.  |
In that case it becomes even worse I'd say.
| Quote: | I fail to see why you would need to sit 20cm away from your screen.
The standard resolution is 1024x600. |
1280x1024 on a desktop monitor is comfortable and I can see that without glasses.
1280x1024 on a 15" laptop screen is still reasonable.
But 1024x600 on a 10" screen (and that's for an expensive Eee by the way) isn't exactly usable without glasses.
| Quote: | | 4 hours is standard, but not for consumer laptops, for business laptops at least. |
I advice you go and buy a new laptop. Cause most of them won't go under 4 hours anymore.
| Quote: | | The price is still around the same even though now that they use Intel Atom. |
They raised the price anyway, what makes the value vs cost even lower.
You're not going to buy something cause you like one aspect of it. If you do you're just following a hype.
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Dilly dally, shilly shally. |
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Myst
Lifeless Person
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 1008
Location: Somewhere else
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| LP-Trel wrote: | You two can debate at length about value this, price that, and so on. The simple fact of the matter is netbooks represent a need for notebooks that are cheap, durable, and small.
1) Cheap: A decently spec'd Eee PC is selling for $200 here in the states. 1.6GHz Atom, 1GB ram, 4GB SSD.
2) Durable: The Eee PC feels pretty sturdy and I don't think I'm going to crush it throwing it into a bag with other junk.
3) Small: These things are tiny compared to the full sized notebooks you're comparing them to.
I can see plenty of uses for one, but when you have smartphones that can do most of that without relying solely on a wifi connection or dedicated 3G connection in addition to your phone you can see the need for one diminish in some cases. |
This post makes a hell of a lot more sense than your arguing throughout this entire thread 
As I was reading through, I was going to make pretty much exactly the same post, but now I figure it's kinda redundant.
Although $200 for that model of Eeepc is insanely cheap. Here (Australia), the cheapest we can get an Eeepc is A$300 (about US$200), and that's for the original model. (7" screen with the celeron processor in it). Anything with an Atom starts at A$500.
Anyhow, I somewhat agree with a bit of what's been said here (how's that for a non-committal sentence? ). I think there were two reasons for getting an Eeepc.
1) The price - it is still very cheap compared to any 'proper' laptop, which you'd pay at least $600-700 for.
2) The size - it's convenient to carry around.
Unfortunately, with the later models of the Eeepc, they've gone larger and more expensive, which I think ruined the line a little bit.
As far as the Eeepc Box goes - I think that size doesn't really matter when you're buying a desktop (within reason of course), and the price isn't really that good, so again, it doesn't really appeal to me. I'd much rather get a higher specced desktop at the same price at the expensive of the form factor.
As much as many people won't use much more than Facebook and MSN Messenger on their computers, there's no doubt that there is a marginal performance gain with a better computer - and I'd rather have that
| LP-SolidRaven wrote: | | In that case it becomes even worse I'd say. |
He's talking Singapore Dollars (I think) which are about equal to Australian Dollars at the moment (sadly  ). So no, it makes it better |
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mcwkm
Lifeless Person
Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Posts: 748
Location: ct
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| LP-SolidRaven wrote: |
| Quote: | I fail to see why you would need to sit 20cm away from your screen.
The standard resolution is 1024x600. |
1280x1024 on a desktop monitor is comfortable and I can see that without glasses.
1280x1024 on a 15" laptop screen is still reasonable.
But 1024x600 on a 10" screen (and that's for an expensive Eee by the way) isn't exactly usable without glasses.
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I believe that all the newer EEEpc models have at least a 1024x600 resolution or at least all but the 7xx series.
A EEEpc 1000HA can be had for under $400 USD right now which is extremely cheap. This is the basic 10 inch netbook with an atom processor, 1GB of ram and a 160GB hard drive with that 1024x600 display. |
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Jacky
3.14159265358979323846264
Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 4175
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| LP-SolidRaven wrote: | | Quote: | The thing is that for us we know that building our own PC is actually possible.
When I got my first PC I never knew that building my own PC was possible, I only knew that I got to buy them from those manufacturers. |
Then you didn't read enough. This is also why we have manuals by the way, they tend to tell you how to put a computer together. |
How am I suppose to know where to get that manual when I just got my first computer (and didn't have much experience to computers before this)?
| LP-SolidRaven wrote: | | Quote: | | Normal PC as in those first-hand ones. People don't really go for second-hand stuff unless they are hard up on money. |
I'm not talking about second hand computers. They have an over supply of 2 year old hardware that has never been used cause of vista. |
Such as?
| LP-SolidRaven wrote: | | Quote: | | The dollar is not in US currency by the way. |
In that case it becomes even worse I'd say. |
Definitely not, because converted to US$ it becomes lesser.
In short, the US$ is more valued than the S$.
| LP-SolidRaven wrote: | | Quote: | I fail to see why you would need to sit 20cm away from your screen.
The standard resolution is 1024x600. |
1280x1024 on a desktop monitor is comfortable and I can see that without glasses.
1280x1024 on a 15" laptop screen is still reasonable.
But 1024x600 on a 10" screen (and that's for an expensive Eee by the way) isn't exactly usable without glasses. |
I fail to see why you can see smaller text (with higher resolution) and not bigger text (as with lower resolution).
If it's short-sightedness then you will just need to use your glasses.
| LP-SolidRaven wrote: | | Quote: | | 4 hours is standard, but not for consumer laptops, for business laptops at least. |
I advice you go and buy a new laptop. Cause most of them won't go under 4 hours anymore. |
You can read for yourself reviews at NotebookReview.com. There are user reviews, and a dv5 armed with an NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT definitely can't hit 4 hours with the standard 6-cell battery that comes default.
If you consider the dv5 old, there's the HDX16 which is new.
| LP-SolidRaven wrote: | | Quote: | | The price is still around the same even though now that they use Intel Atom. |
They raised the price anyway, what makes the value vs cost even lower. |
When netbooks were first launched with the Celerons, they cost around $798.
Now the Eee PC 1000H which comes with the Intel Atom cost $698.
| LP-SolidRaven wrote: |
You're not going to buy something cause you like one aspect of it. If you do you're just following a hype. |
I don't follow trends, I follow what I like.
_________________
| ClickFanatic wrote: | Your nonsense make my forum visits rather brief, Jacky. It's like:
"Hey look, a reply notification!"
*click* *click*
*reading garbage*
"Oh it was Jacky again..."
*close* |
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mcwkm
Lifeless Person
Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Posts: 748
Location: ct
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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I actually was talking to my uncle last night who uses my old HP desktop which ran a p3 at 450mhz and I maxed out for him the ram with 384mb. He has the machine in his basement and he always is running into problems. He is 82 and he tries but I'll just leave it at he is somewhat hopeless. I brought my EEE 701 hoping to tap into some local wireless which never happened but I recommended he take a look at the 1000h because it clearly has enough power for him and it would fit on the desk in their family room which is quite small. I recommended he look at the screen size and keyboard to make sure both were usable for him. I bring this up to give an example of some whose needs may be met by something this powerful, his problem may be it could be to small.
| Jacky wrote: |
| LP-SolidRaven wrote: |
You're not going to buy something cause you like one aspect of it. If you do you're just following a hype. |
I don't follow trends, I follow what I like. |
Smart people buy items that have purpose for them. |
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LP-SolidRaven
Evil Belgian Waffle
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 8144
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Jacky, it's common sense that a manual is included with something. You can buy old P4s and AMD Athlons for €5 without problem.
And I don't think you get it, I can see things that aren't too small in a range of about a half meter without problem. The Eee's screen size vs resolution though make the letters waaaaaaaaay too small to read;
And then you mention a NVidia 9600M GT; in other words a powerful graphics card that will drain a lot of power if it's used to play a heavy game. That way you can make any laptop fail the battery life test. If I do the same as what you'd do with your Eee I can push the battery life of my thinkpad beyond 5 hours without a lot of trouble though (and that is with Wi-Fi on).
And anything more than €100 is a pure rip off price for a Eee in terms of value vs price.
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Dilly dally, shilly shally. |
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mcwkm
Lifeless Person
Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Posts: 748
Location: ct
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| LP-SolidRaven wrote: |
And I don't think you get it, I can see things that aren't too small in a range of about a half meter without problem. The Eee's screen size vs resolution though make the letters waaaaaaaaay too small to read;
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I'm sorry your an old man who refuses to wear glasses but I would love a notebook with a 1600X900+ resolution on a 13 or 12 inch laptop. |
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Jacky
3.14159265358979323846264
Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 4175
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| mcwkm wrote: | | Jacky wrote: |
| LP-SolidRaven wrote: |
You're not going to buy something cause you like one aspect of it. If you do you're just following a hype. |
I don't follow trends, I follow what I like. |
Smart people buy items that have purpose for them. |
And if I like it, there will be a purpose for it.
| LP-SolidRaven wrote: | Jacky, it's common sense that a manual is included with something. You can buy old P4s and AMD Athlons for €5 without problem.
And I don't think you get it, I can see things that aren't too small in a range of about a half meter without problem. The Eee's screen size vs resolution though make the letters waaaaaaaaay too small to read;
And then you mention a NVidia 9600M GT; in other words a powerful graphics card that will drain a lot of power if it's used to play a heavy game. That way you can make any laptop fail the battery life test. If I do the same as what you'd do with your Eee I can push the battery life of my thinkpad beyond 5 hours without a lot of trouble though (and that is with Wi-Fi on).
And anything more than €100 is a pure rip off price for a Eee in terms of value vs price. |
Like I said, it differs by regions. Old P4s are hard to source here and if that's the first time I even own a computer how am I suppose to know the components inside it?
If you are using Windows you should be able to increase the DPI.
Even if you do normal web surfing with the 9600M GT it still won't hit 4 hours.
If you don't want to use dedicated graphic cards as example, I can use the Compaq Presario V3000, which comes with the Intel GMA X3100. With the standard 6-cell it still won't hit 4 hours, at most you can get is around 3 hours plus.
_________________
| ClickFanatic wrote: | Your nonsense make my forum visits rather brief, Jacky. It's like:
"Hey look, a reply notification!"
*click* *click*
*reading garbage*
"Oh it was Jacky again..."
*close* |
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Myst
Lifeless Person
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 1008
Location: Somewhere else
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| LP-SolidRaven wrote: | 1280x1024 on a desktop monitor is comfortable and I can see that without glasses.
1280x1024 on a 15" laptop screen is still reasonable.
But 1024x600 on a 10" screen (and that's for an expensive Eee by the way) isn't exactly usable without glasses. |
That's the point? You're cutting it very fine there... Do the calculations, and you'll find that the size of a pixel on your 10" screen will be less than 10% smaller than the size of a pixel on the 15" screen. Just out of interest, have you used a 1024x600 10" screen before?
Not only that, but I have a 14" 1440x900 screen (pretty much the same pixel pitch as the 10" screen), and I assure you it's very much readable.
| LP-SolidRaven wrote: | | Then you didn't read enough. This is also why we have manuals by the way, they tend to tell you how to put a computer together. |
You buy a HP computer and you think they have manuals telling you what the motherboard is, and what kind of ram you can put into it, or even instructions on how to open the case?
| LP-SolidRaven wrote: | | And anything more than €100 is a pure rip off price for a Eee in terms of value vs price. |
What exactly do you use to benchmark the cost of something? The Eeepc and other netbooks are in a different league to the standard laptop. They're made for a different purpose. Do you say that a car is way too expensive because you can get a bicycle for a lot less? Why not? They're both vehicles.
As far as battery life goes. My laptop (which, admittedly is just over 2 years old) cannot get anywhere near that. I think the most I've managed to get it with the wifi on is about 2 and a half hours. And that's with the screen brightness on minimum, and me not actually using it. Even when it was brand new it'd max out on about 2 hours normal use.
However, I am willing to concede that battery life has gotten better, and that my laptop might not be the best for battery life. However, I'm gonna guess with your battery life of 5 hours, you don't have a graphics card in your laptop.
And, once again, out of interest, how much did you pay for your Thinkpad? |
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mcwkm
Lifeless Person
Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Posts: 748
Location: ct
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| Myst wrote: |
| LP-SolidRaven wrote: | | Then you didn't read enough. This is also why we have manuals by the way, they tend to tell you how to put a computer together. |
You buy a HP computer and you think they have manuals telling you what the motherboard is, and what kind of ram you can put into it, or even instructions on how to open the case?
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I have actually contacted HP on various products that I have upgraded to just get an answer for parts with no research. They have responded normally within one day and have always given me the information I request. They don't actually include that information in the manual though |
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LP-SolidRaven
Evil Belgian Waffle
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 8144
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Jacky wrote: | | Like I said, it differs by regions. Old P4s are hard to source here and if that's the first time I even own a computer how am I suppose to know the components inside it? |
Guess what, they have huge stocks of them in the rest of the world.
| Quote: | | If you are using Windows you should be able to increase the DPI. |
Guess what, the cheap LCD of the Eee's is rather limited.
| Quote: | | Even if you do normal web surfing with the 9600M GT it still won't hit 4 hours. |
That really depends on how it's configured and what OS you're running.
| Quote: | | If you don't want to use dedicated graphic cards as example, I can use the Compaq Presario V3000, which comes with the Intel GMA X3100. With the standard 6-cell it still won't hit 4 hours, at most you can get is around 3 hours plus. |
How long did you have to think to pick that example. They don't make those anymore. Newer laptops are a lot better at power management.
| Myst wrote: | | That's the point? You're cutting it very fine there... Do the calculations, and you'll find that the size of a pixel on your 10" screen will be less than 10% smaller than the size of a pixel on the 15" screen. Just out of interest, have you used a 1024x600 10" screen before? |
10% is rather relative. I can say that 0.9cm is 10% smaller than 1cm. I can also say 0.9m is 10% smaller than 1m. And yes I have, and it does make quite the difference. High quality 15" LCD panel vs cheap 10" LCD panel makes quite the difference in fact. Especially in terms of contrast (what is rather important in my case).
| Quote: | | Not only that, but I have a 14" 1440x900 screen (pretty much the same pixel pitch as the 10" screen), and I assure you it's very much readable. |
And do you wear glasses? 15" at 1280x1024 is still reasonable. But try 1024x600 on a 10" if your eyes aren't all that good and it becomes quite the issue.
| Quote: | | You buy a HP computer and you think they have manuals telling you what the motherboard is, and what kind of ram you can put into it, or even instructions on how to open the case? |
HP will give that documentation on request. And really, any respectable manufacturer includes that type of documentation with their computers.
| Quote: | | What exactly do you use to benchmark the cost of something? The Eeepc and other netbooks are in a different league to the standard laptop. They're made for a different purpose. Do you say that a car is way too expensive because you can get a bicycle for a lot less? Why not? They're both vehicles. |
The Eee's are in the same price league though. And they just don't offer the same value vs cost as other options.
| Quote: | As far as battery life goes. My laptop (which, admittedly is just over 2 years old) cannot get anywhere near that. I think the most I've managed to get it with the wifi on is about 2 and a half hours. And that's with the screen brightness on minimum, and me not actually using it. Even when it was brand new it'd max out on about 2 hours normal use.
However, I am willing to concede that battery life has gotten better, and that my laptop might not be the best for battery life. However, I'm gonna guess with your battery life of 5 hours, you don't have a graphics card in your laptop.
And, once again, out of interest, how much did you pay for your Thinkpad? |
The base model of the one I bought costed about €450 at the time. Keep in mind I did get most of the extra things (those don't improve battery life). So the total cost went up to roughly €900. Then again I bought it at the perfect timing to get the maximum amount of promotions (the entire "back to school" stuff). And I must mention it's not an R series so it's not the cheapest model either. And the prices of the thinkpads here are heavily influenced by the value of the dollar anyway.
But the cheapest thinkpad should be around €370 with the current rates. Keep in mind the dollar has recovered itself a bit now though so the prices went up again but at one point you could get a R60i for €320.
In the end though the value vs cost is several times better than anything the Eee offers on the European market. Also consider the fact that thinkpads last forever and are virtually indestructible.
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Dilly dally, shilly shally. |
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mcwkm
Lifeless Person
Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Posts: 748
Location: ct
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| SolidRaven, do you fail to realize that different people value different things. Something attracted users to the eee. In regard to people with buyers remorse, technology changes pretty fast so its up to the consumer to research if there will be a new product launched soon after you buy yours and that it is up to the user to know the capabilities of what they are buying. |
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