Bible does NOT condemn gay people

[linuxdoctor]

Well, it's another month and I have another four hundred points to earn. A few months ago I promised to expand on my position that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality but in fact condemns heterosexuals engaging in homosexual acts. It in no way condemns gay people from doing what comes naturally to them but condemns sexual acts that goes against their natures. A number of things got in the way, like the Christmas season and my moving to a new apartment, so it is only now that I am able to elucidate my position.

Heterosexuals are notorious for being willful and sinful people. The Bible was written for straight people because of their naturally sinful nature. They need direction and guidance. Gay people are naturally good and therefore do not need the guidance that straights implicitly require, therefore any rules and regulations contained in the Bible must be interpreted as referring to the inferior heterosexual population.

Take, for instance, Romans 1:27.

[Neil]

Alright, so you are saying that "exploiting" sex, so to speak, is something that God frowns upon as opposed to homosexuality, which He doesn't really frown upon that much. I think I see where you are coming from.

Whether or not homosexuality is "natural" is a whole different discussion.

[linuxdoctor]

[Xtreme]

We've been over this before, but in case another time sheds light on the situation, here's a single brief theological reference for you.

To note, I am, of course, replying to your post on homosexuality, not your post against abortion.

The Trinity, as you undoubtedly understand, is the perfect unity of Persons, the perfect Family. The love of the Father and Son is perfectly offered and received by the other in such transcendent, infinite goodness that it IS another Person, the Holy Spirit, of equal eternal divinity.

Sex is a reflection of this love: it is intended to be both unitive and procreative, as is the love of the Trinity. Homosexual acts are neither. Even basic gross anatomy clearly shows that the sexual act is clearly designed to take place between male and female. There need be no additional details offered, I think, on the lack of procreativity in homosexual acts.

It is absolutely apparent, then, that homosexual acts are unnatural both statistically - as you have pointed out - and theologically.

Furthermore, what would the ultimate purpose of homosexual acts be towards eternal salvation? Why would Christ put in place the Sacrament of marriage, within which all sexual acts should take place, if He actually wanted homosexual acts to take place outside of His sacrament?

I do not, of course, contest your point that many heterosexual perversions exist or that many people commit numerous sexual sins. This, however, validates homosexuality about as much as claiming that because people with two arms are more likely to commit theft, everyone with two arms is inferior to those with fewer.

[Neil]

Procreativity as a result of homosexual acts is indeed absent. I don't see homosexuality as "natural" and once again, I place it in quotation marks because the definition of natural depends upon perspective. I am no one to judge homosexuals, so I won't.

[clpo13]

Since there exist rams that copulate only with other rams, homosexuality is perfectly natural.

Although, as has been said, I suppose that depends on the definition of natural. I see it as not artificial, which is pretty broad. But since homosexual sex is clearly not artificial, it must be natural. It may not be "right" under certain world-views, but that's not what really matters, is it?
_________________
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." --Thomas Jefferson

[img:cd1c8454aa]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/clpo13/anothersig1.jpg[/img:cd1c8454aa]

[linuxdoctor]

[LP-SolidRaven]

[SE13]

Due to the many translations of the so called original biblical stories, no-one will ever really know the truths of the original writings, so how anyone can state that the Bible says this, that and states the other, and actually believe it defies logic, especially given that there is no hard facts to base any arguement on.

Still, we are effectively born to procreate, which in itself makes homosexuality a thing of freakness, as couples of this nature can not fulfil the apparent word from above.

However, among those transaltions of scripts written before pen and paper existed, nothing stated that that homosexuality was not allowed, and indeed may have actually been happening anyway, and in fact almost certainly was.

Religion means nothing to the most part of peoples lives, it is just an excuse to allow/forbid something they do not agree with/do agree with.

When someone can actually, and factully tell me what God/Jehova/Mormon or whoever has done something to either save themselves, or cure their lives, I might be interested,but until then I will be forever sceptical.
_________________
It feels so empty without a signature, so here is some mindless gabble to occupy the space

[linuxdoctor]

[Neil]

[Xtreme]

[athanatis]

[clpo13]

Even other animals take pleasure in having sex. It can't be purely for procreation. The desire to continue the species is motivation enough to mate. Why add pleasure in the mix if it wasn't meant to be something to take pleasure in?
_________________
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." --Thomas Jefferson

[img:cd1c8454aa]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/clpo13/anothersig1.jpg[/img:cd1c8454aa]

[Vipralion]

You sly dog linuxdoctor. You just twisted the words of the quotes you posted to fit what you believe. It's obvious when you say that you've studied the passages for years in order to understand them. Study? Nay you merely looked at it hard enough until it became so blurred that it fit what you wanted it to fit.

It isn't necessarily true that animals take pleasure in having sex. In fact it is more a thing of instinct for an animal to have sex. An instinct born of the need to perpetuate the species. It's been shown that animals don't even realize what they are doing, they simply know that doing a certain action, they will receive a certain, desired result.
As humans, we have the ability to realize ourselves and our surroundings and can associate sex with a feeling of pleasure. Sometimes the desire for such pleasure can be very strong and sometimes very weak. It's all a matter of the mind.

To think that a man having sex with a man is not only normal but perfect is absurd. In fact it is an abomination. An animal does not realize that it is engaging in homosexual behavior when it does so. The purpose of sex is procreation. We've simply found ways to bypass the procreational purposes of sex to leave only pleasure. Semen is a substance containing genetic material, half of what is needed to reproduce. If the purpose of sex is not procreation then why is such a substance ejaculated?

Can any of you really deny the nature of the creatures we are as well as the nature of the rest of the creatures on this planet? Is it so easy to ignore fact and take what you will out of what others say in order to prove your own point? Fact and opinion. Everyone has an opinion, religion is a collection of opinions, only they are referred to as beliefs. Wouldn't be very believable if they weren't called beliefs were they? Fact is fact.

Facts, universal laws and theories may be disproved. This is called falsifiability. It is something many, if not all religions lack. Without this key component to any argument, you have nothing more than opinion. There is much evidence against Catholicism, thus, saying that it is the absolute truth is nothing more than a state of denial for the unfortunate ones who will not utilize logic to bring into clarity the inaccuracies of their beliefs, all because of the tendency to want to be right, to not be the inferior.

Give me facts that your God exists and I will not deny. I will acknowledge and take fact for truth. What evidence do you have other than historical fact, which is simply put, the history of man for as long as man has been able to write and remember. It may be fact but only facts of the time of a species. Nothing more, nothing less. Derivation of any sort of beliefs from such universally insignificant happenings is, well... silly.
_________________
[img:bd4240ba2d]http://gethalo3gear.com/signature/images/halo_signature_1.jpg[/img:bd4240ba2d]