Can Hell be full?

[Xtreme]

[M0ose]

God can't force it upon us, true. But I don't think that God has a hand in everything good. It would be very unlikely that he is the cause of everything good. Sure, if you take the creationism route, God created earth, man, the plants and life to feed on, ect. But past that point, is it really God stepping in, or just an experiment running it's course? Since God can't control you or I, doesn't that mean he has less of an impact then you believe? I mean, think of it. God can't control who finds love, joy, and happiness. Due to the choice and free will we have that can't be interfered with. So, sure, he created everything, but in the end, how can everything good be from him? Obviously a lot of joy and good feelings are self made from the free will of people.

If that is the case too, wouldn't God seem a bit like an *** in the end? Forcing someone who found happiness in areas of life that didn't much concern God, and being forced to nothingness for all eternity? In these terms, it very much makes him sound like a picky snob of a grade schooler, only allowing those in who are good enough, while giving those who fall just short nothing. So if you look at it as if God doesn't create everything good as a whole, that base idea wouldn't exactly stand. All God gave us was the platform. We are the ones who molded it and made it our own.
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[clpo13]

[Rashy]

Of course hell can fill up. What do you think "All hell breaks loose" means? It got too full and spilled over, just like when my girlfriend attempted to fit into her prom dress
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Rashy!

[Xtreme]

Can't tell if that was incredibly insulting to her or instead suggestive of post-prom activities...

A tad on the questionable side, nonetheless?

Have to admit though, mildly amusing analogy...

[Rashy]

No post-prom activities She was telling me that she had a hard time fitting into her prom dress, even though it fit well the week before. The whole night she and her friend had to keep running to the bathroom to make some adjustments. So perhaps that was a little on the dirty side

Anyways, I was reading through all of the posts and I have to say this is a very different view of hell than I had before. I guess it is a very interesting concept. Your soul just kind of floats around, where if you are in heaven then you are filled with eternal love/happiness/everything God wants?

Since souls, in the context of this case study, take up no space, then theoretically they don't exist on our planet (or even "dimension")? Or do they even exist at all? My head hurts from too much theorizing.
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Rashy!

[Xtreme]

The human soul is unconfined by space and does not occupy space.

But it is directly affected by the state and goings-on of both the mind and body, being intricately united to them. And it influences the entire human person in a similar manner that the mind and body do. However, souls are not inherently empirical or physical; so, no, they do not physically reside on the physical earth.

And I wouldn't say a soul in hell "floats around." It is bound - chained - to sin, even specific sins, and has no true freedom, for a person in hell has rejected God and His offer of freedom from sin.

[linuxdoctor]

[quote="Xtreme"And I wouldn't say a soul in hell "floats around." It is bound - chained - to sin, even specific sins, and has no true freedom, for a person in hell has rejected God and His offer of freedom from sin.[/quote]

This is a key point here. All souls in Hell are there because they put themselves there. The souls in Hell have rejected God through sin, specifically mortal sin. Mortal sin extinguishes the light of sanctifying grace that is the gift of eternal life ann those who die without sanctifying grace go straight to Hell.

Sanctifying grace can be restored through profound repentance and contrition (what the Church calls Perfect Contrition) and the sacramental helps of the Church (Penance and Extreme Unction). Doing good works, along with attending the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass (preferably the Tridentine Rite) and partaking of the Eucharist, will help abate temptation and away from sin. In fact, doing good works is essential for salvation for without doing good works there is no true faith. As St. James noted, faith without works is dead and therefore so is grace.

So, the key to heaven is basically threefold, a deep desire to love and serve God and to do His will, a repentance and conversion from sin, including restitution of the harm done for sins committed, and doing good works.
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[Rashy]

So then wouldn't it be more accurate to describe a soul as being in a state of Hell and not simply "in Hell"?

And just as a human who has spent any portion of his life rejecting God can repent and work his way back to heaven, could a soul that is in a state of Hell repent and work to get back to God? Basically I am asking if there is always some hope (trying to stay optimistic here )
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Rashy!

[Xtreme]

What truly makes hell "hell," is the utter lack of hope. A soul in hell has quite literally abandoned all chance of hope in God. This is perhaps the most defining characteristic of hell - it is a state without hope for salvation, for those in this state eternally deny God.

This is essentially one of the root's of the Church's teaching on Purgatory:

Okay, so Joe sinned gravely, but he confessed those sins and accepted God's forgiveness. But the effects of his sin still remain, and there are some minor sins that he hasn't confessed. Joe's car blows up unexpectedly one afternoon on the way home from work.

Now, clearly Joe wanted to love God. But he didn't let go of his sin completely; that is, he isn't perfectly free of it. And, as discussed before, one must be PERFECTLY pure to enter Heaven.

Is Joe stuck in hell now for all eternity? No! Hell is a state of denial of God's love; Joe didn't accept God's love perfectly before he died, but after death, he can still be purified of his [venial] sins.

This is a state of separation from God by choice, for when a soul sees sin upon itself, it understands that it can neither disgrace God nor bear to be in His perfection until that sin is gone. The period in which this sin is cleansed is referred to as Purgatory.

Purgatory is NOT eternal. It is similar to hell with the exception that it has hope for salvation, faith in grace, and love of God. And so while the suffering of a person in purgatory is essentially immeasurable, the faith, hope, and love of a person who longs for God can bear all things.

Hell, though, has no hope. This is the difference. And this is why the Church upholds teachings about Purgatory. If it impossible to go to Heaven without being perfect, then it is only logical that God's mercy would provide for a state after death for the faithful to be purified if they weren't perfect at the point of physical death.

To note, Purgatory isn't an "middle ground" between Heaven and hell. Anyone in Purgatory is going to Heaven, period. It's not an "after-death limbo" sort of thing.

[clpo13]

Wait, if purgatory isn't eternal, how long do you spend there? I mean, it seems like you're saying that someone who doesn't believe in God (or repent, whatever) goes to purgatory so he has a chance to repent. So how long does he have to repent before purgatory becomes hell and there is no hope? It seems to me that no one would ever go to hell under a scenario like this. Either that or no one goes to purgatory.
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[Rashy]

It sounds like you are in purgatory until you have completely cleaned yourself of your sins. From what I read, you either go straight to hell or you go to purgatory (i.e. nobody goes straight to heaven). If you are in purgatory, you are pretty much guaranteed to eventually get to heaven.

So the amount of time you spend in purgatory must be proportional to the amount of sin you have on your hands or something. I think I am starting to understand this
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Rashy!

[Xtreme]

[clpo13]

If everyone in purgatory is essentially guaranteed to go to heaven (given they repent of their sins), then why have it at all? I thought the whole point of Christianity was that you were already forgiven of your sins so long as you accepted Jesus as your savior and asked forgiveness. It seems like you're saying you make a stop at purgatory if you, say, cursed under your breath the day you died. That seems a bit...pointless.

Of course, more than just purgatory seems pointless, but I'm not here to argue religion. I just want to understand the whole concept of purgatory, which, probably as a result of being raised Lutheran, doesn't make much sense. I thought the very act of following Jesus and accepting him into your life was enough. If you have the chance to get rid of your sins in purgatory, what's the point of leading an especially Christian life? I mean, so long as you don't lead an entirely horrible life, wouldn't it be possible to just slide through until purgatory and repent there? I can guess what the answer is (not possible), but I don't get why.
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"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." --Thomas Jefferson

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[Xtreme]