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Scott
tutorialtoday.com
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2582
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
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 Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Scar wrote: | i agree. The only reason i ever kinda replied are to correct people who post retarded crap that makes no sense. You haven't though, and neither has KRt. Eitherway i have givin up since it's going know where and the person is still reposting the same bs.
I don't hate linux. i just prefer windows right now. And the stuff he is saying just isnt true because i haven't experienced any of it myself and i actually use Vista all the time. and it honestly annoys the hell out of me how people can actually post the same crap over and over again that i know personally is not true. |
People here can say the exact same argument back at you, you probably have not used their exact hardware configuration, so you do not know what troubles/benefits they have with Vista, Linux, Macs etc. Pointing out that Vista isn't stable for them is not "retarded crap" because it is their personal experience and it runs differently on different computers.
It wouldn't make any sense if I just said what you say about Linux is retarded crap that you have made up because I haven't personally experienced it, just because you haven't done something doesn't mean it isn't possible.
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krt
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Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 4607
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| ClickFanatic wrote: | | krt wrote: | | Let me first say that 6 months or a year ago, I would have had the same stance as you ClickFanatic, neutral consumer point of view. Maybe it was just the fact that Linux suited my computer usage or finding out more on the reasons why Linux can be better and why Windows is able to keep dominating with the several year gap between slightly more reliable and stable upgrades without much substance (proportional to time). Something changed my perspective. |
I am familiar with your reasoning, because I sometimes use the arguments you use myself to make the point you are making.
I agree that open-source has a much greater potential if only its share of the market was bigger. However, when talking about operating systems and which one to use, you really should put yourself in role of the consumer. You are one after all.
Consumers rarely think ethically about technology, it just has to do what they need and, if possible, they should benefit from using it.
They will not choose open-source because they think it's just. Factors like "does the product do what I need", "will it work", "how much does it cost" and, of course, "how many people are happy using it" really determine the choice.
Consumers do not look at the future. Most don't even know how software is created and therefore have no idea about the potential of open-source.
What consumers do know now is that the latest games will run on Windows, that Adobe software runs very well on a Mac and that Linux is very stable and cool but lacks support in some of the big industries.
Consumers will choose their OS based on these factors. No need for games, but still a need for Adobe software? Get a Mac (or use Windows). No need for either of these? Choose Linux. I think you understand what I mean.
There are also consumers who blindly choose Windows because it's the only OS they know, but a well-informed consumer is more inclined to do the above. Consumers choose the OS based on their own needs or preference not ethics. This is why OS flamewars are pointless (except on this forum, where they generate currency).  |
Spot on. I do however argue for Linux where there is a suitable audience (such as the web development oriented one here) to spread awareness and also to show that the middle phase of Linux growth has kicked in (picture the left half of a bell curve), and the benefits of that are being seen and will be much more prominent soon.
As for "just working", take this example: I have a computer which I am not the only user of. One user speaks little English, requires an easier screen resolution, and should not have full admin right due to a low level of computer literacy and the possibility of something going wrong. And I'll stop there to avoid repeating what I've said elsewhere on this thread or forums.
On Windows*, you cannot^:
- save a screen resolution for each user
- have the OS use a separate language for one user
- easily maintain software in a language other than in English
- control admin rights beyond "ridiculously limited" and "full access"
* this was as of XP, I cannot confirm but I don't think Vista helps much here
^ or have trouble finding and/or configuring software to do the tasks, I don't recall finding any
On Linux, all of the above are possible, especially language management. Set a user's language and help files and translations of programs will automatically be installed.
But then, I guess my situation is rare. Anyway, those are just a few issues that are making it hard to reason switching back to Windows. |
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spock
iSpock
Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 2866
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott wrote: | | If I wanted to burn a CD under Linux it is just a matter of clicking the menu button -> Multimedia -> K3b and it isn't going to bother me with limitations and I know it is going to be good because I feel like I can rely on open source projects to always be good, since it isn't just crap that someone put together to bother you with limitations and trial software. |
The latetst Ubuntu versions even include an option in the right click menu of an .iso file to burn it to cd. And indeed, if I want a freeware cd burner for windows I end up with either shareware, or some adware/virus-infested programthat will require me to reinstall windows 
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ClickFanatic
Est. 2005
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 3857
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:10 am Post subject: |
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Most CD-DVD recorders come bundled with a freeware version of Nero (Express), so it is actually not a big deal.
Edit: Why the hell is "CD_/DVD" (without the _) filtered by mod_security??
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LP-SolidRaven
Dictator of the Dump
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
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Location: The cheese is made out of moon
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Read and laugh: http://www.itworld.com/Comp/22.....10-080403/
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<bart416> I just realized something
<bart416> we celebrate the fact that this piece of rock made one rotation around a glowing ball of plasma that is kept together due to its own gravity well
<njsg> HAPPY NEW YEAR
<Easter> ^^
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ClickFanatic
Est. 2005
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
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Scar
Lifeless Person
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 6111
Location: Chuck Norris's nightmares.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| ClickFanatic wrote: | Most CD-DVD recorders come bundled with a freeware version of Nero (Express), so it is actually not a big deal.
Edit: Why the hell is "CD_/DVD" (without the _) filtered by mod_security?? |
yeah but to use that cd means you have to install the software on the cd (which probably doesn't work with linux anyways unless you have a windows emulator program), and open the program >> select the "image" mode, and local the files everytime to burn an ISO file! We burn ISO files so often that this would take up alot of time.
| ClickFanatic wrote: |
What's so funny? |
Somehow he thinks that microsoft is extending xp til 2010 on cheap computers (the ones that linux works best on) because linux is god and everyone uses it. and Microsoft is so very scared? HAH
What is funny is that even walmart recently stopped selling any computers with linux in their stores. Why? Barely anyone was buying them. And they were super cheap. - And yes they did sell most of the units, but very slowly.
Microsoft has nothing to worry about.
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ClickFanatic
Est. 2005
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 3857
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Scar wrote: | | ClickFanatic wrote: | Most CD-DVD recorders come bundled with a freeware version of Nero (Express), so it is actually not a big deal.
Edit: Why the hell is "CD_/DVD" (without the _) filtered by mod_security?? |
yeah but to use that cd means you have to install the software on the cd (which probably doesn't work with linux anyways unless you have a windows emulator program), and open the program >> select the "image" mode, and local the files everytime to burn an ISO file! We burn ISO files so often that this would take up alot of time. |
There is pretty good open-source burning software for Linux. What I meant to say is that people using Windows usually don't have to look around for free burning software because it's bundled with the recorder. (Linux users don't have to either, because it's usually pre-installed by the distro).
| Scar wrote: | | ClickFanatic wrote: |
What's so funny? |
Somehow he thinks that microsoft is extending xp til 2010 on cheap computers (the ones that linux works best on) because linux is god and everyone uses it. and Microsoft is so very scared? HAH |
I am quite happy that MS continues to sell and support Windows XP because I personally think Vista is crap (read: not worth my money) at the moment. A few more service packs and better driver support should do the trick.
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Scar
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Location: Chuck Norris's nightmares.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ClickFanatic wrote: | | Scar wrote: | | ClickFanatic wrote: | Most CD-DVD recorders come bundled with a freeware version of Nero (Express), so it is actually not a big deal.
Edit: Why the hell is "CD_/DVD" (without the _) filtered by mod_security?? |
yeah but to use that cd means you have to install the software on the cd (which probably doesn't work with linux anyways unless you have a windows emulator program), and open the program >> select the "image" mode, and local the files everytime to burn an ISO file! We burn ISO files so often that this would take up alot of time. |
There is pretty good open-source burning software for Linux. What I meant to say is that people using Windows usually don't have to look around for free burning software because it's bundled with the recorder. (Linux users don't have to either, because it's usually pre-installed by the distro).
| Scar wrote: | | ClickFanatic wrote: |
What's so funny? |
Somehow he thinks that microsoft is extending xp til 2010 on cheap computers (the ones that linux works best on) because linux is god and everyone uses it. and Microsoft is so very scared? HAH |
I am quite happy that MS continues to sell and support Windows XP because I personally think Vista is crap (read: not worth my money) at the moment. A few more service packs and better driver support should do the trick. |
I don't think that Vista is crap. But i also do not think its worth the money. In my opinion its not a major advanced from XP. Vista works nicely for me though and never crashes or anything, so its nice. But XP shouldn't have ever done that either.
You can get tons of free open source burning software for windows. Actually most of these open source people that build software for linux also do the same for windows.
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LP-SolidRaven
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Joined: 06 Jun 2004
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Location: The cheese is made out of moon
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:11 am Post subject: |
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Windows 7 isn't going to be a lot better. It'll follow the standard microsoft style, grab previous version and update it. They promised WinFS once again, I wonder when they'll remove that from the feature list this time. That was actually the only worth while feature of vista... The entire hybrid kernel idea is nothing new (unlike what microsoft is claiming). And they want to follow the apple madness (iTouch for now) and want extra support for touch interfaces. And even more of the desktop is based on .NET. Sounds great eh?
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| Quote: |
<bart416> I just realized something
<bart416> we celebrate the fact that this piece of rock made one rotation around a glowing ball of plasma that is kept together due to its own gravity well
<njsg> HAPPY NEW YEAR
<Easter> ^^
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ClickFanatic
Est. 2005
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 3857
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| SolidRaven wrote: | | Windows 7 isn't going to be a lot better. It'll follow the standard microsoft style, grab previous version and update it. They promised WinFS once again, I wonder when they'll remove that from the feature list this time. That was actually the only worth while feature of vista... The entire hybrid kernel idea is nothing new (unlike what microsoft is claiming). And they want to follow the apple madness (iTouch for now) and want extra support for touch interfaces. And even more of the desktop is based on .NET. Sounds great eh? |
I am primarly concerned with software/driver support. In Vista this is done really badly from what I've heard and read (and also a bit from my own experience), but I am confident this will improve over time.
It wouldn't surprise me if Windows 7 gets the same 'growing pains' as Vista did.
That said, I'd probably stick to Vista for a while when Windows 7 is released, just as I am still running XP while Windows Vista has been out for more than a year.
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krt
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Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 4607
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| ClickFanatic wrote: | | Most CD-DVD recorders come bundled with a freeware version of Nero (Express), so it is actually not a big deal. |
How about mounting ISOs then? Feel free to argue that Linux's built in implementation seems to only be available through the command line though. I guess a more sensible argument is that anyone who has a need for that function would have no problems finding the software or the command.
| Scar wrote: | | Somehow he thinks that microsoft is extending xp til 2010 on cheap computers (the ones that linux works best on) because linux is god and everyone uses it. and Microsoft is so very scared? HAH |
I believe he is suggesting that if Windows XP sales were to not be extended, then Linux has a place as a consumer item in your local computer store as opposed to some vague piece of technology that has to be downloaded and installed. A little presence goes a long way, I refer you to the example with Firefox again and how it triggered a massive growth that sees it having 10-30% market share depending on the source of info and a growing presence in work places and educational institutes. The same thing is starting to happen with Linux, supposedly some school is one early adopter to install Linux as the sole OS on school computers with several others running dual boot setups.
| SolidRaven wrote: | | Windows 7 isn't going to be a lot better. |
If everything that was planned for Vista but didn't make it gets into it along with whatever else they come up, such as this "modular approach" to the operating system, it may be an eye opener. But then, as I have mentioned earlier, Linux's rate of improvement has more potential for the future.
| Scar wrote: | | I don't think that Vista is crap. But i also do not think its worth the money. |
I don't think the money is that much of a concern. Sure it may not be "worth it", but the bigger problem is that it wasn't worth the wait of 5 years. |
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LP-SolidRaven
Dictator of the Dump
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 7015
Location: The cheese is made out of moon
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| krt wrote: | | ClickFanatic wrote: | | Most CD-DVD recorders come bundled with a freeware version of Nero (Express), so it is actually not a big deal. |
How about mounting ISOs then? Feel free to argue that Linux's built in implementation seems to only be available through the command line though. I guess a more sensible argument is that anyone who has a need for that function would have no problems finding the software or the command. |
Some file types can be opened using the standard GNU tools (the category of things like cat, dd and more stuff like that).
| Quote: | | I believe he is suggesting that if Windows XP sales were to not be extended, then Linux has a place as a consumer item in your local computer store as opposed to some vague piece of technology that has to be downloaded and installed. A little presence goes a long way, I refer you to the example with Firefox again and how it triggered a massive growth that sees it having 10-30% market share depending on the source of info and a growing presence in work places and educational institutes. The same thing is starting to happen with Linux, supposedly some school is one early adopter to install Linux as the sole OS on school computers with several others running dual boot setups. |
Another advantages for companies and schools is that linux allows rather precise management of the rights of a user. And mass account creation on servers isn't a problem either.
| Quote: | | If everything that was planned for Vista but didn't make it gets into it along with whatever else they come up, such as this "modular approach" to the operating system, it may be an eye opener. |
The only worth while feature of vista was WinFS. The modular approach is nothing new, BSD is a great example of an efficient "hybrid kernel" like the one microsoft claims they have. (Did they steal more BSD source code? They already stole the TCP/IP Netstack, why not the kernel?)
| Quote: | | But then, as I have mentioned earlier, Linux's rate of improvement has more potential for the future. |
I'm more keeping my eyes aimed at BSD at the moment in that aspect.
| Quote: | | I don't think the money is that much of a concern. Sure it may not be "worth it", but the bigger problem is that it wasn't worth the wait of 5 years. |
Too bad it's hard to put a value/price on operating systems. Though I'm fairly certain vista would be close to Windows ME in that aspect.
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| Quote: |
<bart416> I just realized something
<bart416> we celebrate the fact that this piece of rock made one rotation around a glowing ball of plasma that is kept together due to its own gravity well
<njsg> HAPPY NEW YEAR
<Easter> ^^
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Rashy
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Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 632
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Right, so on a happy note...
I built up an old junker computer from scratch, and it actually runs pretty decently now. I was building it with a friend of mine, and he put XP on it. I was like "Eh... lets try this" and partitioned it an put Ubuntu on. Since then I haven't switched back to the XP partition, and may expand my Ubunutu partition soon.
In about 2 hours (which may be slow, I'm all new at this stuff) I set up apache (well all of LAMP actually), ssh, ftp, and vnc on my computer, all working perfectly. Its beautiful. I was sitting in class today, when I remembered something important so I went to "go get a drink of water," went to the computer lab, SSH'd into my server, and created a note to myself. It was so cool, in a geeky kind of way.
I'm in the process of setting up streaming media right now, I'm just having trouble finding an application that handles everything I want it to (music, photos, video)
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Jacky
SolidRaven is a noob.
Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 3739
Location: Earth Password: dd4b21e Sex: Male
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:23 am Post subject: |
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Microsoft released Windows Vista after 5 years with only a few new features because of the security exploit that was going on in Windows XP during the development of Windows Vista.
Windows XP at that time was facing serious exploit and they had to release a service pack to fix the situation, which was the SP2 with new security features.
They can actually release it earlier, but they scrapped the whole thing halfway through and redid the whole thing. I don't really know the details, but you may be able to pick it up at Windows Vista's Wikipedia article.
If supposing everything goes by plan, they may really be able to release Windows 7 in time, with not just plain graphics improvement, but also new features. Even before Windows Vista SP1 was released, work has already started.
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