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kenoodo
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 Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:26 am Post subject: Divorce |
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I once heard that there are some religions that say no to the divorce, but I am not sure if that is true.
To divorce, I know that is a very tender subject, maybe it is not appropriate to post it here. But, you know, it is in our lives, we have no place to hide from it.
So, it would be a good idea to share the views from the religion angle. How do you think? |
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Xtreme
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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The Catholic Church teaches, as per scripture, reason, and Sacred Tradition, that divorce is not possible/allowed. The sacrament of marriage is something of utmost gravity and its vows are with eternal intention.
Therefore, the Church does not hold the authority to divorce - what God has bound, no man shall unbind.
The Church DOES allows for the nullification of the sacrament of marriage in rare, rare cases. A an "annulment" is the process by which the Church investigates and determines that a marriage NEVER EXISTED in the first place - the ceremony was conducted, but the sacrament never took place.
I'm not personally too aware as to what must be found for a marriage to be annulled, but keep in mind that it IS NOT a divorce. The bond of marriage is breakable only by death. Period.
Legal divorce may take place after an annulment, as the legal aspect of marriage must be dissolved even though the sacramental aspect never truly existed. |
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asusreviews.com
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:49 am Post subject: |
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A Christian perspective on divorce would be:
The only time it is ok to divorce is if your spouse is being unfaithful to you. (cheating on you) You shouldn't just divorce someone because they lost their job, you get in fights often, etc etc.
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Xtreme
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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And where, with all of the Protestant rants about sola scriptura, in the Bible can you justify divorce?
Indeed, in the Old Testament Moses allowed divorce. BUT. This was because a relaxing of the law occurred since the people had grown so immoral that they needed a sort of gradual "stepping-stone" set of laws to bring them back to God. For Christ says:
| Matthew 19 wrote: | | ...They say unto him, "Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?" He saith unto them, "Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so." |
Christ restates and reaffirms the eternal nature of marriage here.
| Mark 10:12 wrote: | | And he saith unto them, "Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery." |
| Luke 16:18 wrote: | | "Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery." |
| Corinthians 7:10-12 wrote: | | And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife |
An adulterous spouse may allow for separation, but NOT divorce. That is, an wife's unfaithfulness can be grounds for the couple no longer living together, but no divorce is possible; nor can either spouse have any sexual relations with anyone else or remarriage with anyone else.
This is not at all scriptural basis for divorce, as many Protestants would have you believe.
And so here's your Christian perspective on divorce: it is not possible!
Marriage is eternal and unable to be destroyed by man. It is a bond created by God Himself - no man can undo it. |
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clpo13
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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That seems kind of odd, considering that one of the Ten Commandments warns against committing adultery. If adultery is such an important sin, why wouldn't it be grounds for divorce?
Also, what exactly do those verses mean when they say "to put away?" That doesn't really sound like divorce to me.
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Neil
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| clpo13 wrote: | That seems kind of odd, considering that one of the Ten Commandments warns against committing adultery. If adultery is such an important sin, why wouldn't it be grounds for divorce?
Also, what exactly do those verses mean when they say "to put away?" That doesn't really sound like divorce to me. |
Let's see what Jesus has to say about this:
| Matthew 5:31-32 (NKJV) wrote: | | Furthermore it has been said, "Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce." But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery. |
I'm surprised that Xtreme didn't cover this.  |
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Xtreme
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | That seems kind of odd, considering that one of the Ten Commandments warns against committing adultery. If adultery is such an important sin, why wouldn't it be grounds for divorce? |
Nothing is grounds for a divorce. Marriage cannot be dissolved by man - it is a bond made by God, and no man has the right to break it.
| Quote: | | Also, what exactly do those verses mean when they say "to put away?" That doesn't really sound like divorce to me. |
Forgive me for the strange words, I didn't have a Bible with me when I looked up the references and I simply Googled the verses so that I could provide more precise translation than I could recall off-hand.
That said, I now realize that both the NAB (Catholic) and even the Protestant NKJV translate the verse as using the word "divorce."
So "divorce" seems to be a better translation according to both Protestants and the Catholic NAB.
| Quote: | | Quote: | Matthew 5:31-32 (NKJV) wrote:
Furthermore it has been said, "Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce." But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery. |
I'm surprised that Xtreme didn't cover this. |
Almost forgot about this one. The problem here is the Protestant mistranslation. Also, the cherry-picking nature of the post has put Christ's words out of context. Lets see what's actually going on.
Christ is being questioned about divorce. He recalls Moses's teaching that divorce was acceptable at a certain time. However, this teaching was lax and is now Christ reinstates the law as it was in the beginning. When asked whether divorce is lawful, Christ says:
| Matthew 5:31 wrote: | | It was also said, "Whoever divorces his wife must give her a bill of divorce." But I say to you... |
Now, what the Proestants get wrong is exactly what Christ said to them. Apparently, the NKJV says "any reason except sexual immorality" is acceptable cause for divorce. However, this is is nothing more than a mistranslation. The Greek word here is "porneia" and it CAN mean "adultery" in many cases, but here it is better translated as representing "separation of husband and wife" referring to the fact that a true union never existed. So only if it can be shown that the marriage did not actually properly exist in the first place can the couple remarry.
Another Greek word - "moicheia" is a much more narrow way of meaning "adultery" rather than the wider array of ideas conveyed by "porneia." St. Paul later uses "porneia" to refer to a marriage that can be dissolved because it was an unlawful (incestuous) one and therefore never truly existed. This is no coincidence.
Additionally, it is clear by the disciples reaction that the Aramaic words Jesus used were not intended to imply that adultery could be grounds for divorce. He said that NOTHING is grounds for a divorce, and a wife can only be sent away if the marriage was unlawful or did not truly exist in the first place. The evidence of their reaction?
| Matthew 19:9 wrote: | | His disciples said to Him, "If that is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry." |
Why would they express such surprise if all Jesus had said was, "Sure, don't divorce; but if your wife is unfaithful, then go ahead." Clearly, the fact that they were so taken aback indicates that Jesus told them something that Moses did not - that divorce was impermissible. Period.
After all, as I pointed out before, there are multiple later points in the Gospels in which divorce is EXPLICITLY disallowed with no exceptions. See earlier posts and above for clarification.
What would make more sense: that Jesus decided to contradict His other explicit teachings, or that the Protestants maybe - just maybe - got it wrong?
Sorry, not much of a brain-stretcher there for me.
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asusreviews.com
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:30 am Post subject: |
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I'm not going to read through your whole post, but am just going to say that I disagree with you.
From the words of the man himself, Jesus he said:
| Quote: | | Furthermore it has been said, "Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce." But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery. |
I just don't understand. Jesus says it very clearly that if your wife sins (or most likely your husband also) in the aera of adultery that you have the right to divorce them. This is the only reason that Jesus says that you should divorce your spouse.
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linuxdoctor
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:27 am Post subject: |
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To expand on what Xtreme noted about the correct understanding of Matt 5:31. Another proof that Jesus forbade divorce comes from the Church's own Tradition. The Church has always taught, right from the first century, that divorce was illicit. The teachings of the Early Church Fathers, which have been handed down to us, are the teachings of the Apostles who themselves learned them from Christ. It is this constant handing down of the same teachings, century after century since the time of the Apostles, what we call Sacred Tradition, that is proof of its authenticity.
The Catholic Encyclopedia cites the teachings of Fathers of the Church going back to the second century that testify to this constant tradition. See http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05054c.htm for a history of the Church's teaching on divorce.
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marinaroz
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:45 am Post subject: |
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Well, as for Judaism, there is no moral problem with divorces, there are plenty of laws about it.
The thing is, a man can divorce his wife pretty much whenever he likes and for whatever reason. The woman can't do the same though.
If a woman wants to divorce, she has to convince her husband to divorce her. It's even a problem in modern days. If a woman is not living with her husband, but he can't be convinced to give her the divorce, and she has children with another man, her children are 'bastards' by religion and that's a major problem.
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asusreviews.com
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:28 am Post subject: |
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Ok, now lets take logic into account. I understand there are different interpretations and views of the Bible, but just take this into account...
Ok so your wife begins to cheat on you. It starts off just a once off thing. She then begins to keep seeing the same person, day after day and cheats on you some more. Eventually she is over at another mans house every day doing you know what.
And the whole time your just supposed to sit there and ignore it? Your just going to allow her to continue to do this to you? I just don't think that is right, and I believe Jesus doesn't think it is right either.
Instead if some "cheating" does occur, you need to confront your spouse. If it continues and doesn't stop, then, sadly, It is time to look into getting a divorce.
Jesus did intend for us to unite as one and stay together forever. But sometimes sin takes over a persons life and turns them the other direction. They get to the point where in the marriage there is no longer, any respect or commitment. It is time to end the marriage all together.
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kenoodo
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for your information.
It seems even from the Bible, different people make different explanations. And we have not only one Bible, that is really a big problem.
We are taught to love people and be good, and I think the marriage is based on love. Because of love the two come together and spend days together. But when one day the love is gone, the combine, the marriage, is still there. Should the two apart while the love is not there anymore? If not, would it be right to bind two people who do not love each other no longer? That would suffer a lot. |
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asusreviews.com
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Well it depends, if you don't love each other to the point that one or both of you cheat on each other then the marriage should be put to an end.
If there was true love in the beginning, I don't believe that a couple could "no longer feel love for each other." True love lasts forever...
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Xtreme
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm not going to read through your whole post, but am just going to say that I disagree with you. |
Ah, you seemed to have summed up the entire Protestant approach to theology in a single sentence. Congratulations.
| Quote: | | I just don't understand. Jesus says it very clearly that if your wife sins (or most likely your husband also) in the aera of adultery that you have the right to divorce them. This is the only reason that Jesus says that you should divorce your spouse. |
If you decide to take a minute and actually read my previous post, you will see what I believe is a sufficient explanation of this misinterpretation.
| Quote: | | To expand on what Xtreme noted about the correct understanding of Matt 5:31. Another proof that Jesus forbade divorce comes from the Church's own Tradition. The Church has always taught, right from the first century, that divorce was illicit. The teachings of the Early Church Fathers, which have been handed down to us, are the teachings of the Apostles who themselves learned them from Christ. It is this constant handing down of the same teachings, century after century since the time of the Apostles, what we call Sacred Tradition, that is proof of its authenticity. |
I wanted to speak to those who denied the Church's authority regarding the protection of sacred tradition, but indeed the handing down of the proper understand of divorce from the Church fathers is a good a reason as any to give credence to my aforementioned interpretation of Matt 5:31.
| Quote: | Well, as for Judaism, there is no moral problem with divorces, there are plenty of laws about it.
The thing is, a man can divorce his wife pretty much whenever he likes and for whatever reason. The woman can't do the same though.
If a woman wants to divorce, she has to convince her husband to divorce her. It's even a problem in modern days. If a woman is not living with her husband, but he can't be convinced to give her the divorce, and she has children with another man, her children are 'bastards' by religion and that's a major problem. |
While this is not the way God intended marriage to be, it is indeed the relaxation that Moses taught to the people. So I can understand why Judaism teaches this.
However, I would suggest that Christ's fulfillment of these laws brings a much fuller and sensible approach than simply saying that a man can divorce his wife arbitrarily.
| Quote: | | And the whole time your just supposed to sit there and ignore it? Your just going to allow her to continue to do this to you? I just don't think that is right, and I believe Jesus doesn't think it is right either. |
Who said to ignore it?
All I said is that divorce is not a possible response to adultery. Not that adultery is at all acceptable or lacking gravity.
| Quote: | | If there was true love in the beginning, I don't believe that a couple could "no longer feel love for each other." True love lasts forever... |
Indeed. But "true love" is not a "feeling." Couples often say they no longer "feel love," but what they really mean is the physiological butterflies are gone. That immature idea has little to do with "true love."
Not that I'm married. But I know better than to equate love with a fluffy "feeling." Apparently many secularly married couples don't know the difference. |
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wahedmenelnas
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Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:30 am Post subject: |
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i didnt read all as i dont have enough time now
but i'll say what about islam religion
islam says that marriage is a relationship between the man and the woman
but u may choose wrong
u may find that its not the one after years of marriage
no body knows the future
so divorce is allowed in islam
but its said as (the worst allowed thing to allah)
that mens u can divorce
its allowed
but god doesnt like it
its just allowed as there r some cases that its imposible to live with
but some people take divorce as agame
he want her to be with him then he marry
then he is bored so he divorce
its not like that
we have to choose well
and we have to know that any relationship must have problems
thats what my religion says about it
choose well first and u have the right to separate but its not so good
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