| Author |
Message |
wahedmenelnas
Experienced Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 57
|
 Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:11 am Post subject: |
 |
|
first
u think that universe came all from one single small thing
so
from where did that thing came?
if we all and all that system and all that accuracy came by chance
then who created the first SMALL minuscule point?
it came from nothing?
second
and if god is able to creat all that universe with all that accuracy
then he is able to do anything
he just can say to anything HAPPEN then the thing happens
u may take that talking as folish talking
but just think first
i think u r smart from ur post
so i dont think u can take it as folish without thinking in it
there must be a god
we muslims believe that he doesnt have sons or wives but its not our problem now
u dont know what god has to ask where did he get the materials to make the univere
he is not a carpenter to need materials
he is able to make materials as magic
its not magic
its ability
just think think think
_________________
love is like addiction,,when w can stop it , we dont want , and when we want, we cant |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
krt
...
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 4607
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yes... but it could be infinitesimally small yet that point of origin hypothesised in the Big Bang theory must still somehow come from somewhere, or perhaps more appropriately, nowhere. Of course, this presents a similar question for the biblical idea that God created the universe, because one could ask "where did God come from?". This is only slightly less complicated if you consider God a spirit, but then, how does something not existing physically create matter and/or energy.
On the other hand, the minuscule point of origin of the universe must be composed of matter and energy. Neither theory works logically. I don't bother going much deeper with my thoughts on this (I have this idea that we have another sense acting on another level, somewhere along the lines of a subconscious perception of a non physical dimension but that got ridiculously confusing in an instant).
Another thing, the biblical approach comes closer to explaining how we suddenly have a mind and soul when we are born with seemingly no existence beforehand, another way of explaining that is: if the Big Bang theory was correct, there is a long way until explaining how life exists and how we can have thoughts unless you want to believe that we are simply living life based on the random movement of atoms and it is only our perception that makes it seem we are controlling our actions. Anyway, I go by the idea that we should concern ourselves with making the most out of the life we have been given and take it as a gift instead of worrying about how we are here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
clpo13
Zarkin' frood
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 1210
Location: Washington
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| wahedmenelnas wrote: | | then he is able to do anything |
Even create something from nothing? You said earlier that nothing can come from nothing, but now you seem to be implying that God can create something from nothing.
_________________
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." --Thomas Jefferson
[img:cd1c8454aa]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/clpo13/anothersig1.jpg[/img:cd1c8454aa] |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
Artakserksis
Adept Poster
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 74
Location: Komotini
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wahedmenelnas wrote: | first
u think that universe came all from one single small thing
so
from where did that thing came?
if we all and all that system and all that accuracy came by chance
then who created the first SMALL minuscule point?
it came from nothing?
|
Well, where did god come from then? Who made him? Did he come from nothing?
-EDIT- Whatever, I just saw krt already told about this.
| wahedmenelnas wrote: |
and if god is able to creat all that universe with all that accuracy
then he is able to do anything
|
First of all, there is no accuracy in the world in anything, because there is nothing else to compare our world to and see which is the most "accurate". It looks like everything is accurate because we are just a part of the world. If there were different processes in the billions of years since the universe was created, and there were not people or animals but let's say "clouds" with some kind of intelligence, then the world would seem really accurate for them, because they would be a part of that world. It wouldn't be a nice place for us if we think of it now, but if we were created in another world like that one, would we think that Earth would be a better place to live? Probably no, because we would already think that the world we were already living in was totally accurate. Uhm, I hope that makes sense, I'm not sure if I can actually express what I believe about this.
| wahedmenelnas wrote: |
just think
its all about logic
and i'm still 19
so i think alot
|
Well, I am 15 and I believe I think more than many religious people that are blindly believing everything in their religion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
wahedmenelnas
Experienced Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 57
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
ok ok ok
then i see that all posts say the same question
where did god come from
if i told u that someone made god
u'll tell me (who made that some one)
then it will have no end
i believe that anything must be created by someone or smthng
that question u all asked (where did god come from)
means that we reached the point that there is god
in islam we believe that god hasno start and has no end
its very imposible to think about that
i tried to imagine someone with no start
my mind was about to explode
but that is somethng depend on other thing
depending on that i made sure(by logic) that there is god
i believe that god as he created everything
and he knows more than me as simply he is the one who created me
so depending on my belief in god
i believe him when he says that he has no end and no start
even if i cant imagine that
but i tried to imagine that there is someone who created god
then who created that one?
so i stoped
i reached that i believe in god
and god who i believe in told me smthng about himself(no end and no start)
so
because i believe in him
i believe him
just by logic also
i was lost in the past as i didnt use logic
_________________
love is like addiction,,when w can stop it , we dont want , and when we want, we cant |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
wahedmenelnas
Experienced Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 57
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
krt
i'm not so good in english
so i think i didnt understand all u said
but i got the general view
anything can be created
there must be someone who created it
and that smal point
if it formed all that
then there must be someone who created that point
and even if we live in random movements of atoms
then there must be someone who created that atom
and about god
no body created god as simply god was not created
u may think that it make a conflict with ehat i sad before(nothing comes from nothing)
but as i said
god created all
so he is our lord
ans as he created us
he knew more than we know
and he says that he has no start and no end
then we have to believe him as i said
depending on our belief in him
thats by logic
_________________
love is like addiction,,when w can stop it , we dont want , and when we want, we cant |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
wahedmenelnas
Experienced Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 57
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
Artakserksis
accuracy is not what we want
accuracy is shown in the universe
look at how earth make loops around the sun
imagine if that was corrupted for one day
maybe the earth will become so close and we will all be burned
look at how ur body works
ur brain and ur heart
who can make that
accidents and wars happen
but u think the one who can control the loops of the earth around the sun cannot control some wars on earth?
he can do it
he just dont want
islam doesnt say that god loves us all and will put us all in heaven
islam say that all the sins people do on earth is to classify the good people and the bad people
good will go to paradise and bad will go hell
that what is we believe in
and please write in simple english as i find it abit hard to understand well
if i missunderstood any posts of any of u
please explain and i'm sorry
thank u
_________________
love is like addiction,,when w can stop it , we dont want , and when we want, we cant |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
wahedmenelnas
Experienced Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 57
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
clpo13
when i said nothing can be created from nothing
i meant that there must be a creator
materials is not a problem
if some one has the ability to create the universe
then he cannot be imaginable
i mean his ability must be above our ability of thinking
so materials is not a problem for him
what i 'm trying to say
GOD CREATED ALL THAT UNIVERSE FROM NOTHING AND GOD WAS NOT CREATED
HE HAS NO END AND NO START
thats all in short
and thank u that u pointed about that point
that was a missunderstanding and it was my mistake
i couldnt express it well
so i'm sorry
thank u
_________________
love is like addiction,,when w can stop it , we dont want , and when we want, we cant |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
Artakserksis
Adept Poster
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 74
Location: Komotini
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | accuracy is not what we want
accuracy is shown in the universe
look at how earth make loops around the sun
imagine if that was corrupted for one day
maybe the earth will become so close and we will all be burned
look at how ur body works
ur brain and ur heart
who can make that |
What I said was that we think everything is accurate because we are just "used" to it, and we are a part of it. If everything was different WE would have been different too, and that different world would seem to us as accurate as this we are currently living in is.
Also, if god could exist since always and has no end or start, as you said, why couldn't everything also exist since always? Is it more logical for an evolved god to existed since always, or just the "materials", as you said, that randomly made the world as we know it? I personally think the second is more logical. And IF god exists he gave us logic. To think. But if we use our mind a bit more, which HE gave us, and doubt his existence, we are supposed to go to hell. Why doesn't he make his existence a bit more obvious? Why does he allow so many different religions to exist, and doesn't just show us which is the true? My answer to these: He doesn't exist.
I know it's impossible to make someone who passionately believes in his religion be more open minded and think outside it, but I just try. I was a christian before some years or so, but I regret the hours I spent trying to actually see god. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
Neil
Lifeless Indian
Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 2981
Location: Hingað
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Artakserksis wrote: | | Quote: | accuracy is not what we want
accuracy is shown in the universe
look at how earth make loops around the sun
imagine if that was corrupted for one day
maybe the earth will become so close and we will all be burned
look at how ur body works
ur brain and ur heart
who can make that |
What I said was that we think everything is accurate because we are just "used" to it, and we are a part of it. If everything was different WE would have been different too, and that different world would seem to us as accurate as this we are currently living in is. |
Absolutely! This is what makes us human. If there is life on other planets, we would call the occupants aliens. To these aliens, us humans on Earth would be considered aliens.
| Artakserksis wrote: | | Also, if god could exist since always and has no end or start, as you said, why couldn't everything also exist since always? Is it more logical for an evolved god to existed since always, or just the "materials", as you said, that randomly made the world as we know it? I personally think the second is more logical. And IF god exists he gave us logic. To think. But if we use our mind a bit more, which HE gave us, and doubt his existence, we are supposed to go to hell. Why doesn't he make his existence a bit more obvious? Why does he allow so many different religions to exist, and doesn't just show us which is the true? My answer to these: He doesn't exist. |
Ah, yes, dipping into existentialism.  This is a good thing.
I, too, have asked the same critical questions. I proposed to my [Christian] parents: what if I, an agnostic theist yet a Christian church attendee, decided that I would like to shift gears and begin attending a mosque? Would God punish me for having doubt? How can God do this if he loves me unconditionally? Philosophers have concluded that in order to have faith, one must have doubt; I agree with this. Is the every-loving, unconditionally forgiving God now merely a blur in the mirror? His own order, for us to have faith in him, contradicts his own concept of having doubt.
You aren't the only one who has concluded that God does not exist. I would have wasted a lot of Sundays searching for God, and I don't want to give up that search. If I came to know that God didn't exist, well, I would feel pretty damn bummed out. It would be disappointing.
One roadblock which I have reached is that if God is capable of creating the universe, as is told in Genesis, he must have a logic much greater than us. He probably believes (if he exists) that his existence is evident via nature and other things.
In other words, if God exists, his logic is much greater than ours and we just have to believe him. It is a paradox that never straightens out. 
| Artakserksis wrote: | | I know it's impossible to make someone who passionately believes in his religion be more open minded and think outside it, but I just try. I was a christian before some years or so, but I regret the hours I spent trying to actually see god. |
As a fellow searcher, I can see how you would give up the search, throw your hands in the air, and scream, "I GIVE UP!" Not a bad idea; if God exists, he would see your conclusion and try to change it.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
RohitMalhotra
The Crazy One
Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 852
Location: __________ ~~/[[[zzz::: Some Where In The Northern Sector :::zzz]]]\~~________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
Artakserksis
Adept Poster
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 74
Location: Komotini
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| RohitMalhotra wrote: | Yes He does .. It is the perfect explanation to everything that is unexplained..
Rohit Malhotra |
How can the most unexplained thing be an explanation to all the unexplained things? To be honest, in my opinion there isn't anything unexplained, just not-yet-explained. The science is evolving rapidly and more things become clearer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
wahedmenelnas
Experienced Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 57
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Artakserksis
who said god doesnt want us to think with our minds
who said that if u think u go to hell?
i dont know where did u get that from
we r not in afight
we r in a discussion
if u consider it a fight
so i'm out of it
i'm just making discussion
and if i found smthng better for me in that discussion
i'll search about it
and if i made sure its true
i'll change to it
there r many open minded people
i repeat it
I AM NOT FIGHTING WITH ANY BODY
and i think u answered ur self
u asked why god lets us in many faithes and many ideologies
why he didnt just make one faith and we r all on it
and u think that who think goes to hell
its completely nonsense
i think u didnt think alot about it
the whole thing is about thinking
just imagine there is just 1 faith
there will be NO thinking
no mind using
we will not use our minds to reach the truth
when i was akid
i cared about nothing
all the people want to become kid again to be always happy and to care about nothing
but imagine if we all found the right way
there r no choices
no ways
there will be just 1 way
u think its fine?
i dont think so
as people will not socialize
nobody needs to meet anybody as every body knows his way
god can make us know our way
but he just dont want
that doesnt mean he doesnt exist
human made the computer
but can the computer think like human?
the computer has limits in thinking compared to the one who made it
and human has limits in thinking compared with the one who created him
so its normal that we canot understand every thing
god gave us some clues
depending on them we know that there must be agod
and since we know there is a god
we obey him
all that doesnt mean that thinking in bad
look at quor'aan (and maybe bible i think)
we have many many phrases ended with the order to think
thinking is our way
we dont have anything but thinking
thinking can bring us anything we dont have
so we should keep thinking
never stop
and that is an aspect or religions
not as u said
and i'm repeating
i think that we r not here for fighting each others
we r to discuss
if that forum is made for fighting
then i'm out of it
_________________
love is like addiction,,when w can stop it , we dont want , and when we want, we cant |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
wahedmenelnas
Experienced Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 57
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
and about accuracy
chance can make me meet u once
but chance can make me meet u every friday at 9 pm?
i dont think so
the universe may be created by chance
but all these fixed physical rules and percentages of materials in the universe that never change
all that is about chance?
i dont think so
i dont know how that cannot make smbdy believe there is someone moves all that
someone very smart
very reliable
and have power to control that
has infinite power as that universe has infinite cases
_________________
love is like addiction,,when w can stop it , we dont want , and when we want, we cant |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
wahedmenelnas
Experienced Poster
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 57
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
look at the quor'aan
we have a phrase in quor'aan says that the moon has been splitted
(quor'aan came 1429 years ago)
and i read that these age they saw a split sign on the moon like it was splitted before and stuck again together
that was just astory
there r things make us tend to believe there is god
and there is signs for him
i said before
i'm still not 100 % sure
i'm just still searching
_________________
love is like addiction,,when w can stop it , we dont want , and when we want, we cant |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
|
|
Forum FAQs 
Knowledge Base 
Memberlist 
Usergroups 
Hosting
Register
Donate 
Profile 
Log in 
