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DeadlyXScreams
Experienced Poster
Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 50
Location: United States, Texas
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 Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:15 pm Post subject: Evolution! Reral or Not? |
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There are many that believe that God created all living things, but others question this with "scientific facts".
I'd also like to point out that some scientist that study this do not believe it is real. I want to know what you think...
Is Evolution Real, or is it a hoax.
I do not believe in evolution
The sites listed below support why to an extent, the other is just that I believe in god.
http://www.gennet.org/index.html
http://www.rlhymersjr.com/Onli.....sAHoax.htm
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com.....x/4000.htm
(The site below are a few of the frauds of evolution)
http://www.nwcreation.net/evolutionfraud.html
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linuxdoctor
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Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 1219
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Evolution! Reral or Not? |
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| DeadlyXScreams wrote: | There are many that believe that God created all living things, but others question this with "scientific facts".
I'd also like to point out that some scientist that study this do not believe it is real. I want to know what you think...
Is Evolution Real, or is it a hoax.
I do not believe in evolution |
You are free to believe what you like, but if you want to show a scientific theory to be wrong you will have to produce scientifically verifiable facts. What facts do you have to support your belief?
These are all Protestant websites so why should I believe anything they have to say? The Protestant religion is a false religion, a fraud and an affront to Almighty God. There is no way that I would accept anything these websites have to say on this subject.
Show me a real Christian anti-evolution website, and by Christian I mean Catholic, then I would consider it. Protestantism is a daemonic evil that must be stamped out by every means possible. If you are a Protestant you should convert to Christianity immediately to save your soul. Go to the nearest traditional Catholic Church and speak to the parish priest about converting to the real Christian religion.
Just because some people have perpetrated frauds does not mean that the theory itself is wrong. There is still plenty of reliable evidence to show that the theory is, for the most part, correct.
Most anti-evolutionists attempt to 'refute' evolution using non-scientific means. This will not work. The only way to discredit a scientific theory is to show that it is false using scientific methods. To show that evolution is in fact wrong you will have to produce facts that demonstrate it to be false. This usually takes the form of another theory that better explains the observed results.
And before you jump on the Creationist band wagon, Creationism is not acceptable as a scientific theory because,as it is currently proposed, it cannot be proved scientifically.
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If you think I'm 'politically' incorrect you have the wrong politics. |
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Necromis
Lifeless on my Boat
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
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Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| Here is the biggest issue I have. Nothing and I mean NOTHING keeps both from being true. Creationism and evolution do not contradict each other. Creatonism is only contradicted by the big bang theory. Not that I personally believe in, nor is there evidence to support, Creationism. Why is there such a big fight over two theories that in no way contradict each other. If God exists and created us, who says he didn't create us to evolve to be better than we were? |
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ClickFanatic
Est. 2005
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:59 am Post subject: |
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The evolution theory does not disprove the existence of a god or creator. It simply describes how species develop and how we can understand that.
Science in itself doesn't contradict the existence of god either. God could have created an entire system that makes sense. We are just discovering how it works.
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linuxdoctor
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Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 1219
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| Necromis wrote: | | Why is there such a big fight over two theories that in no way contradict each other. |
The fight is over the nature and purpose of Science. Creationism is not a scientific theory, period. Science is built on the Scientific Method (also known as the Empirical Method) which, among other things, relies entirely on what can be observed, measured and tested. To accept Creationism as a scientific theory one would also have to accept as valid something that cannot be observed, measured or tested, that something being God. In short, the Big Bang Theory can and has been tested, Creationism cannot, therefore Creationism is not a scientific theory.
Now, God very well may have created the Universe and the Big Bang may very well have been the process of Creation, but there is no way to verify that scientifically. In fact, there are many questions that science is simply not competent to answer, one being, what caused the Big Bang.
The questions that science can answer are only those questions that can be verified empirically. Everything else is beyond the scope of science. Science can tell us what happened once the Big Bang occurred, but it cannot tell us anything about what happened before it.
Creationism purports to answer the unanswerable, at least as far as science is concerned, cloaking itself in the veneer of science. In reality, Creationism is nothing more than a front for heresy. Those who advocate it do so only so that they can have it taught in schools as science as a means of getting the Protestant pseudo-religion taught to children.
On the other hand, there are those who think that only that which can be observed, measured and tested is real. These people deny the existence of God and things like ghosts, daemons, angels and other spirits. For them, anything that science cannot deal with does not exist. These people are just as narrow minded as the Creationist heretics.
At present, the Church is considering the current state of the evolutionary theory. This past August the Pope invited to the Papal retreat at Castel Gondolfo top scientists and philosophers to discuss this very subject. It is expected that there will be an official statement concerning evolution next summer possibly in the form of a Papal Encyclical. It is certain that whatever the Church teaches will be in accord with science.
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If you think I'm 'politically' incorrect you have the wrong politics. |
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LP-SolidRaven
Dictator of the Dump
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 7036
Location: The cheese is made out of moon
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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Several of the factors related to the big bang have been proven to exist. Though the actual event itself can't be totally proven.
4 factors are known though:
1) The background radiation that such a thing would emit is there
2) The expansion of the galaxy
3) The oldest elements were H, He, Li, Be
4) They're in the right quantities in the older stars
| Quote: | | It is certain that whatever the Church teaches will be in accord with science. |
Lets not forget how long they claimed the earth to be flat. I doubt we can count on one hand how many people they killed for saying the world isn't flat.
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<bart416> I just realized something
<bart416> we celebrate the fact that this piece of rock made one rotation around a glowing ball of plasma that is kept together due to its own gravity well
<njsg> HAPPY NEW YEAR
<Easter> ^^
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Necromis
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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Solidraven you could if you multiplied it by 10+ LOL.
LD one thing that has always puzzled me about you is your belief in your faith but failing to follow some of its core principles. Christianity teaches tolerance and understanding, and yet you are one of the first to attack off shoots of the faith that don't fall under the catholic heading.
More in line with the topic though, science does put forth theories that are not based on pure evidence. Black holes are one such example. We cannot see black holes as they are in essence the lack of light. What could simply be a starless area could also be a black hole. We had theories about these based on extrapulations from other theories on gravity. However, it was only in the some what recent future that we were actually able to trace matter and other particles being drawn towards them. So to say science is all about "what can be observed, measured and tested" is not very accurate.
Also one theory links big bang and black holes together. |
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LP-SolidRaven
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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Probably, as that much mater in a single point would likely form a singularity.
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| Quote: |
<bart416> I just realized something
<bart416> we celebrate the fact that this piece of rock made one rotation around a glowing ball of plasma that is kept together due to its own gravity well
<njsg> HAPPY NEW YEAR
<Easter> ^^
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Necromis
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| well the theory between big bang and black holes is basically this. Black holes form, they suck in everything around them. In time all that are left are black holes. The larger of these start to absorb the smaller untill there is only one black hole left. This compresses down to where the pressure becomes too much, causing an explosion forcing back out all of the matter and starting the process of life over again. This would fall right in with the expanding universe, also would give a reason of how it started. All of which is based in scientific fact. I know I have said it in a rather simplistic way, but it makes sense. |
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ClickFanatic
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linuxdoctor
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Joined: 23 Apr 2005
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Necromis wrote: | | LD one thing that has always puzzled me about you is your belief in your faith but failing to follow some of its core principles. Christianity teaches tolerance and understanding, and yet you are one of the first to attack off shoots of the faith that don't fall under the catholic heading. |
Christianity teaches truth and the fundamental core belief of Christianity is respect for the truth. There are distortions of truth that are called heresies that are essentially lies about Christianity masquerading as truth. Protestantism is one of those heresies. As a Christian I must defend truth against untruth which, in this case, means defending Christian truth against Protestant lies. Tolerance does not include standing by and allowing truth to be destroyed. What it does mean is to have patience with those who are in error and to correct them. It does not mean allowing untruth to remain unchallenged.
Remember, nobody has a right to be wrong. They do, however, a right to the truth which means that they have a right to be corrected and those in possession of the truth are obliged to correct those who are in error.
| Necromis wrote: |
More in line with the topic though, science does put forth theories that are not based on pure evidence. Black holes are one such example. We cannot see black holes as they are in essence the lack of light. What could simply be a starless area could also be a black hole. We had theories about these based on extrapulations from other theories on gravity. However, it was only in the some what recent future that we were actually able to trace matter and other particles being drawn towards them. So to say science is all about "what can be observed, measured and tested" is not very accurate. |
I don't think you know what black holes really are and that yes, we can see them. Sort of. The existence of black holes was originally a mathematical extrapolation of Relativity Theory proposed by Steven Hawking back in the 1970s. Yes, it is true that light cannot escape from black holes or any other matter for that reason, but black holes behave in a very specific way which gives their presence away. When matter falls into a black hole, energy in the form of X-Rays is emitted out into space as that matter crosses the hole's event horizon. That can be detected. The gravitational effects of black holes on the light and matter surrounding it can likewise be detected thus giving away its presence. These are all observable phenomena which were predicted, along with others, when Hawking original proposed the existence of black holes. In this way we can 'see' black holes.
| Necromis wrote: | | Also one theory links big bang and black holes together. |
Can you elaborate this? Black holes are the result of massive amounts of matter so huge that the fabric of space-time folds in on itself. At the moment of the Big Bang there was no matter nor was there any space-time, so I don't see the connexion.
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Misanthrope: someone who realizes that humans really are as stupid as they appear.
If you think I'm 'politically' incorrect you have the wrong politics. |
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LP-SolidRaven
Dictator of the Dump
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
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Location: The cheese is made out of moon
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:56 am Post subject: |
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Nobody ever claimed space-time can't exist before an event like the big bang.
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| Quote: |
<bart416> I just realized something
<bart416> we celebrate the fact that this piece of rock made one rotation around a glowing ball of plasma that is kept together due to its own gravity well
<njsg> HAPPY NEW YEAR
<Easter> ^^
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Necromis
Lifeless on my Boat
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 742
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| LD I gave a rather simplistic explination of the theory above. If you google big bang and black holes you will get more info on it. Nothing in the big bang theory says there was no matter. Actually the tie between the two is the singularity factor. In essence the last black hole compresses the matter down to the point of a singularity that causes an explosion within the singularity which in turn causes the black hole to be come a *white hole.* |
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pharmer4
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Joined: 16 Aug 2005
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Location: Deniliquin, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:01 am Post subject: |
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I love reading these threads.
it is just so hilarious everyone arguing about who's imaginary friend is really exists, or who's "theory" for whatever is the most correct.
linuxdoctor's arguments are very insiteful - in my opinion, there is no point having "theories" about things like evolution etc if:
- you can't adequately prove it is correct
- you can't adequately disprove it is incorrect
- you can't adequately prove an alternative "theory" is correct
- you can't adequately prove an alternative "theory" is incorrect
- you have no practical use for either theory if one or both were correct
On the off-topic discussion about which "religion" is truth or lies, it's all elementary.
why not ask which one is more likely to be based in reality - Star Wars or Star Trek? I mean, they both have the same level of imagination in their creation, but religion has been around a lot longer.
Honestly, if you feel the need to believe in a theological construct created by pre-historic sub-humans as a way of appeasing their own fears and keeping the masses under some sort of control, the go right ahead.
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LP-SolidRaven
Dictator of the Dump
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 7036
Location: The cheese is made out of moon
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| pharmer4 wrote: | | why not ask which one is more likely to be based in reality - Star Wars or Star Trek? I mean, they both have the same level of imagination in their creation, but religion has been around a lot longer. |
We should focus on that one I think.
The fact is that religion has slowed down scientific advancement a lot in the past. And now the big organized religions are afraid that they might lose their followers (and their income) cause nobody will believe them anymore.
_________________
| Quote: |
<bart416> I just realized something
<bart416> we celebrate the fact that this piece of rock made one rotation around a glowing ball of plasma that is kept together due to its own gravity well
<njsg> HAPPY NEW YEAR
<Easter> ^^
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