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ClickFanatic
Est. 2005
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 3857
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 Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Humans will fight over anything that they disagree about. Disagreement originates from a different perspective on what is right and what is wrong.
Different religions have different views on this, so it is not strange that religion has caused (and is causing) a lot of violence.
On the other hand, people tend to form values on what's right or wrong regardless of whether they are religious. So there will still be disagreement in the end, which may result in violence.
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pharmer4
Metallica Fanatic
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1827
Location: Deniliquin, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| linuxdoctor wrote: | | pharmer4 wrote: | I love reading these threads.
it is just so hilarious everyone arguing about who's imaginary friend is really exists, or who's "theory" for whatever is the most correct.
linuxdoctor's arguments are very insiteful - in my opinion, there is no point having "theories" about things like evolution etc if:
- you can't adequately prove it is correct
- you can't adequately disprove it is incorrect
- you can't adequately prove an alternative "theory" is correct
- you can't adequately prove an alternative "theory" is incorrect
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One of the interesting things about science is that one cannot actually prove anything with absolute certainty. Science is limited by what it can observe and the accuracy with which observations can be measured. The more accurate the observations the more accurately can we determine the truth of error of a scientific theory. The less accurate an observation the less likely we are able to determine its truth from falsity.
The whole history of modern science is inextricably linked to man's ever increasing ability to take more and better measurements from which scientific theories are made, revised or broken. The ability to better predict the motion of the planets in the night sky and different theories that explained that motion resulted from man's greater ability to observe and measure what was happening in the heavens.
But man will never be able to create instrumentation capable of infinite precision for making absolute measurements, therefore man will never be able to arrive at the truth about the inner workings of the universe scientifically. Theories are only as good as the observations on which they are based. That means theories can never be absolutely true.
| Quote: | - you have no practical use for either theory if one or both were correct
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Does Pharmer4 mean to use the word 'incorrect' here? It makes no sense to me otherwise, unless pharmer4 would care to explain it further. However, on the assumption that he meant to use the word 'incorrect' I can make an interesting observation.
Just because a theory is wrong does not mean that there can be no practical value in its application. I speak here of Newtonian Physics, Relativity supersedes Newton which mean, in effect, Newtonian Physics is wrong. However, for all practical purposes, excepting those with cosmological implications, applying Newtonian Physics is, for all intents and purposes " good enough."
For most earth-bound applications, Relativity does not really give an appreciably different answer from what would be given by Newtonian Physics. The difference is that the mathematics of Relativity is generally but not always) much more difficult to do, so why put oneself through it needlessly?
The answer is, of course, you don't. So even though Newtonian Theory is 'wrong' as compared to Relativity Theory, it is still 'good enough' to do practical things with it. |
no, i meant what i typed.
we have no practical use for either evolution theory or creationism. just more conjecture and arguments.
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Necromis
Lifeless on my Boat
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 739
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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LD, really quick. I am not pointing out that most wars are from Religion. I was pointing out that there are probably an equal amount from both religion and non-religion reasons. I have made no statements one way or the other to support or condem any group or person in this thread. Lastly, you are the only person I have ever heard describe the american revolution that way. Neither of us were there, and both sides of a war re-tell it in the best light for themselves, so truth is we will never know if what you believe is really true. I doubt it is, because we would probably be under a king right now. Since they offered Washington that position.
Back on subject. Evolution is real, it happens, and it is very close, in my opinion, to going beyond theory and into scientific law, or whatever it would be called once proven true. It does not discount creation either. |
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linuxdoctor
Infallible Persona
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 1203
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| pharmer4 wrote: | | we have no practical use for either evolution theory or creationism. just more conjecture and arguments. |
Without conjecture and argument there can be no progress.
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pharmer4
Metallica Fanatic
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1827
Location: Deniliquin, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| linuxdoctor wrote: | | pharmer4 wrote: | | we have no practical use for either evolution theory or creationism. just more conjecture and arguments. |
Without conjecture and argument there can be no progress. |
tell that to your DNA - if evolution exists, it does not need to argue or conject (hmm, is that a word, anyway) to progress . . . .
Also, please tell it to all the prehistoric people who managed to progress to language without being able to participate in arguments or conjecture (well, not without violence, anyway), and yet still managed to progress to a language that allowed them to do so.
Lastly, please tell that to all the people who have managed to progress with ideas/inventions/systems and personal betterment without the input of another living sould, therefore able to bypass the unnecessary and annoying stage involving all the conjecture and arguments (although they could be in 2 minds about is, I suppose, in which case, you can ask them when you tell them about needing arguments to progress)
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linuxdoctor
Infallible Persona
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 1203
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: |
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Man is not responsible for their own progress and betterment, God and geniuses are.
God did not create man to think except in a very rudimentary manner. His thought process is similar to that of a dog or a monkey. He has no real capacity for original thought. Certainly he can copy, but originality? Not possible. Man, more often than not, however, ends up thinking like a lemming taking himself and civilisation to the brink of some cliff and, on occasion, jumping off.
That is why God created the genius, to bring civilisation, learning and progress to man. They look like humans in every way, and in fact they are born of mankind itself, except for their ability to think and to be creative. Born of man but conceived of God.
Everything that 'mankind' has created is the product of genius, not of himself. Conversely, everything that mankind has destroyed is his own doing. It is really the only thing that man does really well.
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Misanthrope: someone who realizes that humans really are as stupid as they appear.
If you think I'm 'politically' incorrect you have the wrong politics. |
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Necromis
Lifeless on my Boat
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 739
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| Hmm, last time I checked, there is no Genius that is accounted to being created by God. Only Man. So I guess it is evolution that brought about Genius. Unless you are saying God is a lemming, too? |
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linuxdoctor
Infallible Persona
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 1203
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| Necromis wrote: | | Hmm, last time I checked, there is no Genius that is accounted to being created by God. Only Man. |
There is no account of dinosaurs either, but we know that they existed up until 65-million years ago.
| Necromis wrote: |
So I guess it is evolution that brought about Genius. Unless you are saying God is a lemming, too? |
Not at all. If evolution were responsible for genius then all geniuses who procreate would produce other geniuses. This is not the case. Two geniuses who produce children produce human children not other geniuses. Even a genius who procreates with a human does not produce offspring that shows any significant increase of intelligence above that of humans, so it is clear that genius is not genetic and therefore not inheritable. This means that genius is not a part of the evolutionary process.
A genius is a creature of divine origin superficially resembling man in all aspects except for his intelligence, at least. God produces geniuses, not man. A genius' intelligence is far beyond that of mankind; he is, therefore, supernatural.
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Misanthrope: someone who realizes that humans really are as stupid as they appear.
If you think I'm 'politically' incorrect you have the wrong politics. |
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Necromis
Lifeless on my Boat
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 739
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| there is physical evidence of dinosaurs. |
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linuxdoctor
Infallible Persona
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 1203
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:52 am Post subject: |
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And there is physical evidence of geniuses too. I'm one of them. 
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Misanthrope: someone who realizes that humans really are as stupid as they appear.
If you think I'm 'politically' incorrect you have the wrong politics. |
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LP-SolidRaven
Dictator of the Dump
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 7015
Location: The cheese is made out of moon
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| linuxdoctor wrote: | | Man is not responsible for their own progress and betterment, God and geniuses are. |
I hope you're joking this time.
| Quote: | | God did not create man to think except in a very rudimentary manner. |
YOU are thinking on a rudimentary way. Many people on the other hand think in ways that you probably can't even comprehend.
| Quote: | | His thought process is similar to that of a dog or a monkey. He has no real capacity for original thought. Certainly he can copy, but originality? Not possible. Man, more often than not, however, ends up thinking like a lemming taking himself and civilisation to the brink of some cliff and, on occasion, jumping off. |
Religion pushes people of the cliff. Say what you want but without religion the world would be a better place.
| Quote: | | That is why God created the genius, to bring civilisation, learning and progress to man. They look like humans in every way, and in fact they are born of mankind itself, except for their ability to think and to be creative. Born of man but conceived of God. |
Any psychiatrist in the room, I think linuxdoctor needs one.
| Quote: | | Everything that 'mankind' has created is the product of genius, not of himself. Conversely, everything that mankind has destroyed is his own doing. It is really the only thing that man does really well. |
Funny enough especially the catholic church has been part of destroying things, or do you need some memory support. Crusades, anyone...
| linuxdoctor wrote: | | There is no account of dinosaurs either, but we know that they existed up until 65-million years ago. |
So per dinosaur skelleton they found you'll give me a buck.
| Quote: | | Not at all. If evolution were responsible for genius then all geniuses who procreate would produce other geniuses. |
Go and read a few books first please. Evolution does not find place in one generation. It takes hundreds, sometimes thousands of years.
| Quote: | | This is not the case. Two geniuses who produce children produce human children not other geniuses. Even a genius who procreates with a human does not produce offspring that shows any significant increase of intelligence above that of humans, so it is clear that genius is not genetic and therefore not inheritable. This means that genius is not a part of the evolutionary process. |
Nobody is a genius, everybody is flawed in some way. Ontop of that your entire theory is simply so stupid that I can't find a better word to describe it. A person can become smarter than other persons based on the way they are educated. And of course you'll say that's false; though you know I'm saying the truth.
| Quote: | | A genius is a creature of divine origin superficially resembling man in all aspects except for his intelligence, at least. God produces geniuses, not man. A genius' intelligence is far beyond that of mankind; he is, therefore, supernatural. |
In other words, you're starting to believe in your own lies.
| linuxdoctor wrote: | | And there is physical evidence of geniuses too. I'm one of them. |
Arrogance, please go and get mental help, you need it.
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| Quote: |
<bart416> I just realized something
<bart416> we celebrate the fact that this piece of rock made one rotation around a glowing ball of plasma that is kept together due to its own gravity well
<njsg> HAPPY NEW YEAR
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Necromis
Lifeless on my Boat
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 739
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| SR I am sure LD is kidding. After all he says Genious is divine origin. If this were to be true then it would be noted in the Bible. Obviously it is not listed there for it is non-divine. Not that I believe in religion. Just pointing out the facts of that belief system. LD likes to be a Pain in the mule sometimes. |
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linuxdoctor
Infallible Persona
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 1203
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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I really like how people respond to my posts. You can always tell people who take themselves way too seriously.
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Misanthrope: someone who realizes that humans really are as stupid as they appear.
If you think I'm 'politically' incorrect you have the wrong politics. |
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LP-SolidRaven
Dictator of the Dump
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 7015
Location: The cheese is made out of moon
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| Necromis wrote: | | SR I am sure LD is kidding. After all he says Genious is divine origin. If this were to be true then it would be noted in the Bible. Obviously it is not listed there for it is non-divine. Not that I believe in religion. Just pointing out the facts of that belief system. LD likes to be a Pain in the mule sometimes. |
Lets just say I'm amazed LD hasn't been banned yet. Also LD, move to another forum; I think everybody will support that.
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| Quote: |
<bart416> I just realized something
<bart416> we celebrate the fact that this piece of rock made one rotation around a glowing ball of plasma that is kept together due to its own gravity well
<njsg> HAPPY NEW YEAR
<Easter> ^^
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Necromis
Lifeless on my Boat
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 739
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| Naw, no reason to Ban LD, he is humorous most of the time. |
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