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Necromis
Lifeless on my Boat
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 742
Location: USA
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 Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:52 am Post subject: Iran's President Seeks Permission to Visit Ground Zero |
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| Yes, the title says it all. The largest sponser of terrorism asked to visit Ground Zero(World Trade Ctr.) so that he could lay a wreath at the site. Luckily New York Police Dept. denied his request stating, "construction and security issues." This guy has alot of nerve. After all Iran is currently fighting a war against the US by *proxy* in Iraq. Sending in materials, weapons, and special forces troops. They have caused the death of many US troops. Have funded and supported Terrorism and the murder of many innocent people. He has no right going anywhere near ground zero. Personally I would love to see him arrested and charged with the crimes he has commited against the rest of the world. |
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pharmer4
Metallica Fanatic
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1842
Location: Deniliquin, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:15 am Post subject: |
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I think something like this could be used as a sign of good faith, and a way to bridge a gap.
Don't get me wrong, I know it's an emotional subject.
You say he is responsible for a lot of things, but you need to get your information from a broader area, not just Fox!
Obviously, if he was only doing it as a political stunt etc, then it is a shameful and deplorable thing to suggest, but if he is being genuine, then he should be allowed in.
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Necromis
Lifeless on my Boat
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 742
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| I get my news from multiple locations. Not just Fox. Secondly, this is not an olive branch. As the man has repeatedly called for the destruction of Israel, as well as is killing US troops and innocent people in Iraq. After all if he was looking to do the right thing don't you think he would start by disarming the terrorist groups he runs and funds? |
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Rashy
Lifeless Person
Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 637
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:21 am Post subject: |
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We should have let him visit ground zero, made a big publicity thing over it, and let the red necks of our country do the dirty work for our government 
Necromis: A lot of people are calling for the destruction of Israel, and we (the U.S. with the backing of the U.N.) did kind of force that nation upon the Palestinians. They feel a little robbed of land. Imagine if you were told that you had to move out so that Iranians could have your land and your house. I know I would be pissed, so you can hardly blame him for feeling that way about Israel. Of course, killing Israeli citizens is hardly the way to go about getting the land back...
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Necromis
Lifeless on my Boat
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 742
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:54 am Post subject: |
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Rashy, I think you might want to research your history a little bit better. Israel wasn't forced on anyone by the US OR the UN. Originally it was under control of the UK. It was part of the Ottoman Empire which desolved after the world war. The UK originally offered a larger split of land between the factions living there. However, the Palestines elected to go to war rather than agree. It wasn't their land in the first place. The Jews were there as well.
However, back on subject. The Secret Service is guarding him, so not like the red necks or New Yorkers could *accidentallY* get access to him. Secondly, it would be a spit in the face of those that died there if we let him set foot on Ground Zero. |
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Rashy
Lifeless Person
Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 637
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Before 1948, there hadn't been a soveriegn nation of Israel since 580-ish BC when the Kingdom of Judah was conquered by the Babylonians. The Ottoman Empire was split in 1922 as a result of the Treaty of Sèvres, and the UK took over from there until 1948. True, large amounts of Jewish people have lived in the area, but large amounts of Mexican immigrants live where I do, but that doesn't mean that it is now a part of Mexico. Israel was created by the British Mandate for Palestine, which carved out a part of land that had been under control of the Arabs on and off since the fall of the Roman Empire (in the off times it was controlled by European nations, often under the influence of Christianity). I had to do a large report on Jewish history less than I year ago 
| Quote: | | However, back on subject. The Secret Service is guarding him, so not like the red necks or New Yorkers could *accidentallY* get access to him. Secondly, it would be a spit in the face of those that died there if we let him set foot on Ground Zero. |
I'm glad you realized I was joking there. The U.S. doesn't harbour terrorists. Fanatical Dubya would never let Mahmoud Ahmadinejad into the nation without finding a reason to arrest him and try him on American soil.
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pharmer4
Metallica Fanatic
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1842
Location: Deniliquin, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| Necromis wrote: | | I get my news from multiple locations. Not just Fox. Secondly, this is not an olive branch. As the man has repeatedly called for the destruction of Israel, as well as is killing US troops and innocent people in Iraq. After all if he was looking to do the right thing don't you think he would start by disarming the terrorist groups he runs and funds? |
He is the leader of a soverign nation. If he runs any groups, by definition, they are not terrorists, since terrorists are nation-less (hence you can't declare war on a terrorist group, only a nation in which they hide).
I don't want you to get the wrong impression about what I think, but blaming Iran for a lot of the issues in Iraq is like blaming the US for issues in Palestine . . .
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Necromis
Lifeless on my Boat
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 742
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Pharmer, your logic is foolish. Does that mean if our President operated a group of people that were totally based outside of the US, were not beholding to any government, and commited acts of terror that they too would not be terrorists? This is truly foolish. Understand I am not saying you are foolish, just this idea. The last time I checked Hamas was a terrorist organization. It is not beholding to any nation. It is funded by him, and it is nation-less. You can declare war on any faction or group. It does not have to be against another country. After all the Christians and Muslims declared wars against each other in biblical time. Remember a thing called the Holy War/Crusades?
Rashy, I figured you were kidding. Also I am sure you also realize that George W. is not fanatical. After all his reasons for going into Iraq were already know facts by Clinton during his administration. Also, I am said to say I know that no arrest will happen on Wackjob....oops...I mean Ahmadinejad since he will have diplomatic immunity.
Lastly, Rashy, as your on post indicates and supports from my early post. There was no nation of Palestine to be taken away from them. There was a fair division of land based on population and because of their desire to dominate the whole of the land they launched a war against it. Your example of a large hispanic/mexican population where you live is not accurate. After all you are not living in a defeated and disbanded empire. If you were then it might be split up equally as was the Ottoman Empire. |
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pharmer4
Metallica Fanatic
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1842
Location: Deniliquin, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| Necromis wrote: | | Pharmer, your logic is foolish. Does that mean if our President operated a group of people that were totally based outside of the US, were not beholding to any government, and commited acts of terror that they too would not be terrorists? This is truly foolish. Understand I am not saying you are foolish, just this idea. The last time I checked Hamas was a terrorist organization. It is not beholding to any nation. It is funded by him, and it is nation-less. You can declare war on any faction or group. It does not have to be against another country. After all the Christians and Muslims declared wars against each other in biblical time. Remember a thing called the Holy War/Crusades? |
every heard of the geneva convention and the rules of war?
Also, the US does operate groups of people outside of the US that commit acts of violence etc. For instance, the CIA, the Marines, the Army, the National Guard etc. Granted they are not operating wholly out of the US.
Also, I'm not comparing them to terrorists, just using your point.
And funding of terrorism - listen, if it could actually be proven that Iran was doing it, then dubya would be in there like a fly on $h!t.
And if you want to have a go a people who support terrorism, then why don't you go to your local flea market etc and rail against the people who sell counterfiet products (you know, CDs, computer games, DVDs, Luis Vuiton (sp) etc - all that money goes back either to south east asian crime syndicates etc, or to terrorist organisations.
| Necromis wrote: | | I am said to say I know that no arrest will happen on Wackjob....oops...I mean Ahmadinejad since he will have diplomatic immunity. |
If there were crimes to answer to, then diplomatic immunity would not stop the US from arresting him etc.
The US doesn't get pulled up for invading soverign countries, it does not get pulled up for nuclear proliferation (even though it screams blue murder at the thought of iran having nuclear weapons), it never pays it's UN fees while remaining on the security council, it detains combatants against the law (ie the geneva convention again), and generally embarrases itself on the world stage. Why would arresting and detaining someone despite diplomatic immunity hold any repurcussions for them?
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GOOO KNIGHTS
Novice Poster
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Necromis wrote: | | Pharmer, your logic is foolish. Does that mean if our President operated a group of people that were totally based outside of the US, were not beholding to any government, and commited acts of terror that they too would not be terrorists? |
If the president was operating the group, they would be beholding to the United States. You could argue that the United States military, a group totally based outside the United States commits acts of terror. There have been quite a few media controversies about it. It's been all but proven that the President is torturing people in prisons outside the United States, based on your logic this could be terrorism.
Of course it isn't, as has been mentioned before, you're not a terrorist if you are a group with ties to a certain government.
| Quote: | | This is truly foolish. Understand I am not saying you are foolish, just this idea. The last time I checked Hamas was a terrorist organization. |
Who says Hamas is a terrorist organization? I think it's simply a political party.
| Quote: | | It is not beholding to any nation. It is funded by him, and it is nation-less. |
Like all political parties. The President is the head of the Republican party, who, in part, funds the war in Iraq. If I was Iraqi, I could call the Republican party a terrorist organization.
| Quote: | | You can declare war on any faction or group. It does not have to be against another country. After all the Christians and Muslims declared wars against each other in biblical time. Remember a thing called the Holy War/Crusades? |
At that time, there were no religious freedoms, so it was more like a civil war, with Christian countries such as England and Spain going to war with Muslim countries in the Middle East.
| Quote: | | Rashy, I figured you were kidding. Also I am sure you also realize that George W. is not fanatical. After all his reasons for going into Iraq were already know facts by Clinton during his administration. |
Where's your source for this? What were the facts and reasons known by the Clinton administration?
| Quote: | | Also, I am said to say I know that no arrest will happen on Wackjob....oops...I mean Ahmadinejad since he will have diplomatic immunity. |
There would be no reason to arrest Ahmadinejad. He hasn't committed any crime against the United States.
| Quote: | | Lastly, Rashy, as your on post indicates and supports from my early post. There was no nation of Palestine to be taken away from them. There was a fair division of land based on population and because of their desire to dominate the whole of the land they launched a war against it. Your example of a large hispanic/mexican population where you live is not accurate. After all you are not living in a defeated and disbanded empire. If you were then it might be split up equally as was the Ottoman Empire. |
Isrealis had a desire to dominate the whole of the land as well, and now they do. If it was a fair division of land based on population, why is there no Palestine now, as the Palestinian population should have some territory due to this fair division of land you speak of. |
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Shaggybreeks
Savant Poster
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 104
Location: In the Mighty Sea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Like it or not, he's a VIP, a head of state. If any get to lay wreaths at ground zero, then he should to.
WHY do we insist on a relationship of emnity with Iran??? Can't we give peace even a chance? It really disturbs me the way we (USA YMMV) treat some nations like they're "Great Satans", and then have friendly relations with countries that treat their people so much worse. E.g. our relations with Cuba, vis China. Iran vis Saudi Arabia.
I know that some people are saying he only wants to lay the wreath as a political statement. So WHAT? Who doesn't? Take it for face value, and let the wreath speak for itself. Sheesh. As if Bush and everybody from there down doesn't try to gain some political brownie points for going there.
I remember the night 9/11 there were spontaneous candelight vigils in Teheran. Man, did our halfwit president ever blow all the goodwill the world showed us then...
Oh, but don't get me wrong. I can certainly see the other viewpoint. Iran is a moslem country. The guys who crashed the airliners were moslems. Moslem bad. Yadda-yadda-yadda.
Stupid, stupid, stupid. And deadly.
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RohitMalhotra
The Crazy One
Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 852
Location: __________ ~~/[[[zzz::: Some Where In The Northern Sector :::zzz]]]\~~________
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Even a single hand given in good faith must be taken ... Or so they say .. This very act could have softened in what ever little way the people of Iran view the United states of America.. after all it is all mistrust is it not and i guess it is a bus that was missed ...
But i guess there will be other oppurtunities also
Rohit Malhotra
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spock
iSpock
Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 2881
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:42 am Post subject: |
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I don't believe Iran itself and its president are supporting the terrorists in Iraq, groups in Iran do.
And actually I don't think it's that strange the president of Iran wants to visit Ground Zero, since a lot happened there.
The fact that he comes to the US, isn't that a proof that the guy isn't an enemy of the US?
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darksfear
Novice Poster
Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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This is a touchy subject in my opinion, but it does show signs of him wanting to make up, but perhaps this is not the best place to start, heh.
Should probably stop the war against US, stop supplying stuff/weapons to troops in iraq, retract their forces, etc.
What bothers me though. is how he asked to visit ground zero without shame? |
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Rashy
Lifeless Person
Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 637
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Necromis wrote: | | Pharmer, your logic is foolish. Does that mean if our President operated a group of people that were totally based outside of the US, were not beholding to any government, and commited acts of terror that they too would not be terrorists? |
The United States has supported "terrorist" organizations in the past. The Contras, the Panama Revolution, Bay of Pigs, etc. Its a matter of persepective, we saw them as freedom fighters, but the government they were fighting saw them as terrorists. In some cases they toppled a sovereign government and nation in the name of U.S. interests, in other cases they failed miserably and embarassed us badly.
For example, in Panama we couldn't build the canal because the government didn't like us. So we encouraged the Panamanians to revolt, supplied them with weapons, training, etc. and put an American-friendly government in place (I think they revolted against the Columbian government, but can't remember specifcally).
And you have yet to prove that the President of Iran is indeed supporting Freedom Fighters, or Terrorists, or whatever you want to call them, in Iraq.
| Quote: | | The fact that he comes to the US, isn't that a proof that the guy isn't an enemy of the US? |
It doesn't prove that his intentions are entirely friendly towards the U.S., just that he wants honor those who have died in the September 11, 2001 attacks.
| Quote: | | Oh, but don't get me wrong. I can certainly see the other viewpoint. Iran is a moslem country. The guys who crashed the airliners were moslems. Moslem bad. Yadda-yadda-yadda. |
You have to be very specific here. My friend's room mate is Muslim, and she is one of the nicest girls I know. Muslim ≠ terrorist, and likewise, terrorist ≠ muslim.
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