Landlord in for a BIG ride on the legal rollercaoster

[Perpetual]

Moved out of the city in the summer and started renting a house to see what the area was like. Decent house, 1700 sq ft, 5 bedrooms, 1 BIG bath, 5 acres and a barn...at a cost of $1000/month. We were a little weary of the LL (landlord) not doing some repairs they said were going to be done, but it didn't become a problem until cold weather set in.

Once it started getting cold out we turned on the furnace, it worked great for the downstairs but would not reach any of the room included in the addition. That put us with 4 bedrooms with no heat. When we asked the LL about it, she stated that if you close a couple vents downstairs...the heat will make it to those rooms. Well we tried, even tried closing every vent in whole house besides the rooms with no heat....still no heat. We then asked the LL to have someone look at furnace to see if there was something wrong with it. Next thing we know, we have an order to vacate premises.

Well it turns out they already knew of the furnace and lied the whole time. Not only that, they were pushing us to make improvements/repairs on the house...which we had done some out of our own pocket. This isnt too bad except they had intentions the whole time of us doing improvements and then kicking us out.

Well we sucked it up and found a new place to move to really quick. We wanted to be settled in time for xmas and put the drama behind us. Well that didn't work either. In the process of moving our stuff out the LL's dad came and cleared the house out...illegally. A week before the agreed upon move out date the LL's dad came and shut off water, changed locks and pilfered and took anything they could find of value....very illegal. He had a fire outside burning all our personal possessions that they didnt want, stuff like pictures, photo albums, lawn furniture and anything else burnable. Some of the items he stole (not burned) were my expensive lawnmower, snow blower, my kids bikes, my wifes bike, my expensive mountain bike, $800 worth of quality stained glass along with glass tools, all my power tools...the list goes on a long time. In all we lost about $3000-$5000 worth of stuff.

We called the LL right away..after calling the cops and demanded our stuff to be returned, the LL said she might be able to remember where it all went if we pay them $1200...also illegal. We sat down that night and made a list of everything we could think of that was stolen, in hopes of being able to bring criminal charges against them. Well this morning we contacted our attorney and fed him the list. What we found out was that we can sue for 3 times the amount of worth of stuff taken. So that nice mountain bike of mine is going to cost them $1500, glass $2400, etc. The total bill is up in the $30k's because a lot of the stuff is not replaceable.

So there are going to be 3 suits against them. 1 for a Self Help eviction, another for our stolen items, and another for the burned items. Also holding a trump card of being able to come after them for our security deposit...which also we can sue up to 3 times the amount of deposit if it is not handled right...which we are fully expecting them to mess up on also.

Im not asking for advice, sympathy or the likes. I am writing this as a warning/info to others who might have this situation happen to them sometime. If you are a renter, learn your rights, the LL's will constantly try to bend/break laws.

What the LL did might end up costing them some of their properties. I know at least there will be liens put on their property and they are in the process of trying to sell some of them.

Only question I have, is why they would be so stupid to do this. We even spelled out the law to them on the subject and let them know what type of ride they were in for, but the opted to keep items and laugh about it.

The LL lives out of state and the way we are doing the suit the LL will HAVE to show up in person or else get a default judgment against them...meaning we get ALL we asked for in suit.

After we win the civil case, it opens the door for the local prosecutor to easily prosecute on larceny....they will be looking at felonies.

I should be steaming mad about this, but it brings a BIG smile to my face knowing the rollercoaster ride the LL is going to be on.
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God doesn't exist but I do

[pharmer4]

wow

it was reading sort of standard stuff to begin with, with a little bit of information withheld etc - I almost thought at one point you were going to say that the furnace was causing carbon monoxide build up.

But then the eviction and theft, and BURNING OR PERSONAL ITEMS - oh my god, I'd be in prison myself if that happened to me, cause i'd destroy them and everthing of theirs I could get my hands on.

I wish you all the luck with your case, and hope you keep us informed.
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[Perpetual]

Destroying the house was my first thought, then I realized thats what they wanted. They would love nothing more than the house to burn so they could collect insurance money.

It's not an assumption that they would love the house to burn. They were in the process of trying to sell the house when we moved in but couldn't sell it because they were asking more than its worth, it was on the market for years. It would also lessen their financial problems by $1800/month and give an insurance payout. Also landing me in jail....

I started my homework on the LL's dad last night. I found an assortment of info on the guy easily. All the way from him being arrested, traffic violations to court cases and address of some of his rental properties. My next step is finding past tenants of his to hopefully find at least one other person he has done this too. Only way I have found so far to find them is by court cases to evict them, maybe I could cross reference address to find other names listed to that address. Also pursuing the last person to live in the house that my stuff was stolen from, I have found court cases between LL and old tenant so good possibility they did it to him too. I remember just after moving in the old tenant came over asking if we seen any items of his stuff in the house....didn't think much of it at the time.

With them taking all our stained glass and tools, they have also effectively stopped us from running our part time business of selling stained glass art, that opens them up for a suit on Loss Of Wages.

So far the LL's and her dads reason for entering property and doing what they did with our stuff is that they are saying we abandoned property. Meaning they are saying we left the house and what stuff was left inside and outside behind and no longer occupied the house. Not too bad of a defense EXCEPT there are laws that were totally bypassed, laws that were setup to avoid stuff like this and also the fact we still have legal possession of house. We also still had various utilities still in our name and on.

The law states that it has to go through court to evict someone. Also stated specifically against taking of belongings of tenant. If any items are to be removed from dwelling, it HAS to be done by the police under court order. Law also spells out the definition of "Abandonment of Property", there is around 5 things that ALL have to be true. There is one thing on that list (the biggest one) that was untrue, There was NO attempt to notify us, they had a snail mail address, email address and phone number...all of which they have used to correspond with us before. Adding in that he also did it during the normal hours someone would be at work and away from house paints a bad picture for him.

A lot more homework to do on them yet, but what I have so far in very promising. We get to sit down face to face with our lawyer Monday and hammer out the facts and other possible routes. We are doing it on a contigancy basis, meaning the lawyer will get 1/3 of judgment. We lose out on some cash, but the lawyer will work harder for a bigger judgment seeing he will get more money.

Possibly after this is all done I might post names and addresses of these LL's to keep clear from if Lifeless's rules allow. Not in hopes of belittling the LL and her dad but maybe someone will google the address and find this post and decide not to rent from them after finding out what they might be in store for.

Maybe a possible great idea for a site would be one that people can post about places they have rented and their experiences. Stuff like, did the LL make repairs, not invade privacy, steal stuff from house while moving out, security deposit and stuff of the like. I know I would use it if it existed.

The "invade privacy" is a big thing. A place I rented awhile back the LL one day decided to just walk in my house while I was sleeping...he almost got shot. I really thought someone broke into house and I couldn't see his face because of light behind him in a dark room. Not to mention it was back when I lived in the city...1 mile from Detroit, bad stuff happens around there daily. That LL is the only LL I have sued before, I ended up getting his house condemned on a stupid code violation, sued him for paid rent and he had to sell his house because he couldn't afford the trouble of it all. He also got sued by the next door neighbor right after I sued him, they sued him for getting paint splatter all over a classic car while painting the house. They tried asking him to pay for it on his own, but mr.stupid was stubborn and ended up paying more than he would have had he just accepted responsibility in the first place.

We have had a slew of bad LL's, its why we learned so much about Landlord/Tenant laws. A lot of stories added up over the years, guess I should just buy a house and get out of this drama. We haven't been able to come up with a way to screen prospective landlords, the more questions and references you ask for, the less likely the LL will lease the house to you...another good reason for a site for past renters to leave good/bad feedback.

Anyways, will keep ya informed.
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God doesn't exist but I do

[Perpetual]

Well today the LL's dad tried having me arrested for assault. He filed a false police report saying I spit in his face the day we found out he stole/burned our stuff. The investigating cop was cool. We explained the situation and what led up to this and he had some positive remarks for us.

Also in this we found out the LL's dad might be stalking our kids. We were a little bewildered about how the police found our new address and when we asked the cop stated that the LL's dad had somehow gotten our address from the school bus route. It just bothers me he is doing his home work on my kids. He now has ALL their pictures (if he didnt burn them) and knows when and where they are dropped off for school and also where they sleep at night. Yeah I might be paranoid about this, but why take the chance.

We are going to pursue a Restraining Order against him. All we have to prove is stalking. Stalking is legally defined as:

[Rashy]

Well personally I wouldn't worry about any legal threats he brings against you anymore since his past claims has fallen through. The police have records that he has lied in the past about cases brought against you. Basically the boy calling wolf. I would be more worried about physical harrasment, such as him approaching your kids and wife (which is sounds like he is doing).

Whoever said people are smart? And has long as he keeps bothering you, that just makes it easier for you to win the case (and potentially get a bigger compensation)!

Just hang close to your family, even if it makes you late for work or whatever else, that is the most important part of your life
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Rashy!

[Perpetual]

He has nothing on me.

The sheriff stated that if we even see him anywhere around bus-stop or house to immediately call police.

As for the Restraining Order, our lawyer advised against that at the moment. He stated that he could fight it on the ground "he was doing his job" when he entered the house...which so far has basically been his defense. So it could turn out a waste of money.

Big snow storm tonight, calling for 10-16 inches. Wish I had my snow blower...
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God doesn't exist but I do

[pharmer4]

The stalking is just ridiculous.

Are you able to hire a PI or something like that to keep track of him, and as soon as he shows uop somewhere, the PI could have police there before anything nasty could happen - I don't know how much that would cost or how long it would be before your case could be seen to, but it may give you some peace of mind during the daylight hours.

honestly, though, this whole situation is ridiculous - I can't understand the greed and callouseness of people . . . . (I can actually, but damn)
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[Perpetual]

Well the Sheriff showed back up today, this time for the LL saying we trashed the house and wanting to press charges on us once again.

The LL is saying that we destroyed the furnace, took every cupboard door, hung from ceiling fan and broke ceiling and toilets over-flowed with poop. Our mouths just dropped when the sheriff was describing it all.

We can't prove that we didn't do all of the damages, but we have pictures that were taken over the time we lived there that even shows the crack in the ceiling. So we are hoping that if we can disprove some of the things, that the others that we have no proof of will be dismissed because of blatant lies. I mean how do you prove that the LL's dad came into house after we got the last of our stuff out and did these damages? Even if we had pics from the day we were 100% moved out that showed this stuff not broken they could say we took the pics then did the damage. I just need to figure out ways to prove he is lying, ceiling damage is one way. We even had a licensed builder come by to inspect the ceiling when we first moved in to see whether it was going to fall in one day. The crack was caused by a support wall being taken out and the house settling the wrong way because of it.

We also asked the sheriff when this harassment was going to stop. It was a week ago that he tried having me arrested for supposivly assaulting him. The sheriff stated he isn't going to be back out to our house and discussed with him about the false police reports the LL's dad is filing.

Well like I said before, they are just digging themselves into a bigger hole to which they will not be able to get out of.

Yesterday I found out from the builder we had look at the ceiling that the house is being foreclosed upon. Reason he knew was that he was buying the bare lot that was part of the houses property and the deal couldn't go ahead because of the foreclosure. So it looks like they are trying to use us to save them from their financial situation by suing us...too bad its for stuff we had no part in.

Well I'm guessing that within the next week the LL's dad will find another way to try and attack us...just fuels our motivation to make them responsible for what they have done. His tactics just seem to be getting dirtier and dirtier, I wonder how far he will go.
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God doesn't exist but I do

[marinaroz]

My god, what a terrible story. Stuff like that is the reason I'm wary of renting. I've heard stories from friends about their landlords who'd enter the apartment and touch their stuff, invent reasons to charge extra money and neglect to do the promised improvements, but I never heard a terror story like this. A total nightmare.
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Tarakana NET

[coralvalley]

That is just horrible in hearing that they were dealing with you in such a shady and nefarious fashion, but that does not surprise me at all. Obviously they were out to get their hands on some cash and hoping that they could use you and your family by taking advantage of you in the process of getting things that they wanted done. What they did is not only shameful, but so very illegal. I am glad to hear that you and your family have taken action against them because they should not be allowed to do that to another person. When I think about what they did in burning your stuff like that, it is just horrifying because those are things that you can't get back.

It's such a scary world we are living in when you try to find a place to live in with your family and provide for them, then some person with a hidden agenda comes in and finds a way to make things miserable for you. I can understand how you are feeling right now. While I don't have that kind of experience that you went through under my belt, we had moved into a house a few years ago and when we first moved in the house looked like it was a dream house. Everything was beautiful, but shortly after we moved in, we saw that the builder had done everything and I do mean absolutely everything so sloppy and in some cases not right at all. He took all his left over parts that he had from other house and tossed them into our home. Within weeks of living there, the ceilings were falling apart at the seams, the sink exploded, which I've never had happen in my life, the pipes were all leaking and not even put together right and worst of all he built the fireplace improperly so that mold was growing throughout the whole area. There were furnace issues and the way the ventilation system was it was always at least one hundred degrees in my room if not more. Even after we put central air into the home, it still didn't cool the room down at all, which never should be like that, but there were major issues going on. It was a complete and total mess and we were fortunate that we hadn't sold our other home yet, so we were able to go back into that one after thinking that we had found our dream home. After that it really sours a person on moving.

I am glad to hear that you and your family were able to find a new place to live rather quickly because that is the worst possible time to have to go through something like that. Hopefully that landlord you had will be held accountable their shady actions and be made to pay for what they have done. No one should ever have to go through that and you are right. It is important for people to know their rights as renters to protect them from people like that who are obviously out for themselves and don't care about other's well being. I'm sorry that you had to experience all of that, but hopefully now things will work out better for you and your family in your new home.

[pharmer4]

hey man, any updates - did the landlord and her dad find a way to mess up your christmas?
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[Perpetual]

Xmas went fine, have not heard anything from LL. We are taking our time on this, time is in our favor. The LL has 30 days after moving out to show what they took the security deposit for. If they don't they can be sued for 3 times the amount of deposit....which we plan on doing. Face to face with lawyer keeps getting rescheduled due to weather and schedule conflicts.

I'm going to hit them from so many angles they don't even know where to start.

This drama has made us jumpy, real jumpy. Always looking out window to see whos driving by, wondering who that car is behind us when driving, looking into security systems for house and stupid stuff like that....makes me feel paranoid.

We used to leave car unlocked with keys in it, now its locked all the time. House was usually not locked up, now we even lock the door with us home. Our german shepard is now at night time made to sleep by back door...he doesn't like strangers. Stupid changes I have noticed. It shouldn't be like this.

In time we will be able to go back to how we used to be...I hope.
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God doesn't exist but I do

[pharmer4]

i hope so too dude
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[Courtney_G]

That must really suck for your family. It's difficult for me to even fathom something so primitive and cruel. The only reason I can come up with to explain why they persist is that they hope to frighten you into submission. Unfortunately for you, it has become a little scary, but it sounds like you're doing the best you can to take care of your family until this is over. And unfortunately for them, they've forgotten that a frightened or wounded enemy is the most dangerous of all.

[Perpetual]

Well this situation is still ongoing. The old LL hasn't tried messing with me or my family anymore.

Update is that our lawyer is also going after the local police department for standing by and letting him break the law right in front of their face. I myself am not too enthused about suing the police department, but they were in the wrong and could of prevented this all from happening if they would have followed the law themselves.

The LL still has no idea about the suit besides our early warnings that it was going to happen. They have since lost the house to foreclosure from the bank.

Lawyer is also going after a breach of contract on their end.

If it wasn't me that they did this too, I would halfway feel sorry for the trouble they are in. But if you can;t do the time, don;t do the crime they say...ring of truth.

I'll let you guys know how it goes in case your interested.
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God doesn't exist but I do