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Xtreme $niper
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 Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Oh I don't deny that there are a lot of distros that are moving away from this 'terminal era', but Ubuntu is practically one of the only ones that are well known in that respect.
I understand that marketing costs money, but true marketing comes from word of mouth. I suppose nobody in the mainstream really wants to listen to what geeks have to say about their favourite OSes.
As for Gnome, I was under the impression that KDE was the more GUI-friendly environment.. Was I wrong? I've only had a lot of play time with KDE.
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ClickFanatic
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Xtreme $niper wrote: | | I understand that marketing costs money, but true marketing comes from word of mouth. I suppose nobody in the mainstream really wants to listen to what geeks have to say about their favourite OSes. |
Linux has a desktop market share of only a few percents, which means very few users. Add to this that operating systems are not in the top ten of conversation topics. Despite being a very convincing marketing method, word of mouth just takes a lot of time with these factors given.
Also remember that Ubuntu's popularity has only taken off about a year ago (somewhere between 2006 and 2007). A year sounds like a lot if you look at advances in computer technology, but for people this is not a very long time. Changing the way you work with a computer is something that takes time and consideration, because a habit is something that people, by nature, hate to change.
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Scar
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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i tried several linux distros out, and in my opinion they arent even ready to be made mainstream. it's still too complicated to get anything to work on it. Such as installing drivers. It took me forever to get my network card driver installed and working, and even then the internet was way too slow on linux.
some people say Linux doesn't freeze? Well they were wrong. A few windows on linux kept freezing. I couldn't close them or do anything. They were just there and i had to ignore them and open windows above them. since i'm not a computer person like that would know how to do everything in linux - i didn't know how to access some sort of process manager to close that window's process., so it does crash and freeze. isn't as stable as everyone likes to argue.
Vista hasnt froze on me once since i started using it.
I really love DreamLinux. If I didn't have a valid copy of Vista Ultimate, i'd go with Dreamlinux, but still its even complicated and isnt really going to make it big until they make things operate easier and better.
They said Linux was designed by hackers/coders for themselves, so until that way of thinking changes completel (which it has started to) then it wont be mainstream.
I must say that gOS worked perfect. Installed all the drivers and everything on its own and was working perfectly, but it was sitll boring due to the drawback of no commercial programs available for it.
Sure free open source software is nice, but commercial software is better and has the polish on it, and the only reason it has that is so people will buy it. I would love to see commercial programs goto linux because then it'd be worth using.
i love using Photoshop, If i switched to linux i'd have to use Gimp. You can't compare those two. You might be able to compare gimp to paintshop pro, or even paint.net but it can't even do alot of the simple tasks that photoshop can. Why limit myself? I'm not a hacker, nor a coder, or a computer person. Computer is just a habit  ha, i don't know what you'd call me.
The photoshop thing is just an example of many software. They just can't compare. Although openoffice does a pretty good job, but if i already own ms office 2007 there is no point of downgrading.
I'd give it atleast two more years for Linux to be able to be placed in the same category with Windows or even Apple's OSx.
Or we can go down the route where linux can be used only on old pc's since the older pc's wont support the newer os's like Vista. But even then it won't make linux any better because no software developer is going to develop some software for an ancient pc.
I would like too see some of these distros charing money, then they'd have even more resources to polish the project and even get in contracts and what not with major software & game developers and get something out there to make linux worth using.
Not everyone wants to be a Microsoft Rebel. i love Microsoft products, they all work for me. Vista is flipping awesome and i never have any problems with it. So i don't wanna rebel or anything and downgrade myself. There are many others who feel the same way as i do.
But saying that. Again i would love to have more options. The only reason i choose windows, is because there is no other option unless i want to do less. Mac isn't even an option.
I'd rather use linux than a mac
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Xtreme $niper
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Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| ClickFanatic wrote: | | Xtreme $niper wrote: | | I understand that marketing costs money, but true marketing comes from word of mouth. I suppose nobody in the mainstream really wants to listen to what geeks have to say about their favourite OSes. |
Linux has a desktop market share of only a few percents, which means very few users. Add to this that operating systems are not in the top ten of conversation topics. Despite being a very convincing marketing method, word of mouth just takes a lot of time with these factors given.
Also remember that Ubuntu's popularity has only taken off about a year ago (somewhere between 2006 and 2007). A year sounds like a lot if you look at advances in computer technology, but for people this is not a very long time. Changing the way you work with a computer is something that takes time and consideration, because a habit is something that people, by nature, hate to change. |
That's true. I guess only time will tell if linux will start getting more recognition. I think one of the main issues people have with it is that there are just so many distros to choose from, so where do you start? With Windows you may still have a bunch of choices but they are all essentially the same OS. Linux has such a broad variety of looks and types and options, it may just be too overwhelming to someone trying linux for the first time.
Perhaps the linux community needs to do a better job of educating people? That costs nothing but time, which with a wiki page and some enthusiastic people probably wouldn't take all that long.
| Scar wrote: | | some people say Linux doesn't freeze? Well they were wrong. |
Heh, I agree. But the same goes with Macs. People say that OS X never freezes, and that it's so stable and sturdy and secure. Well, every OS has its down sides.. Every OS will crash at one point or another, since the programmers are still human. The main culprit for crashes a lot of the time is simply that some driver is faulty, or a program you are using was just not debugged properly before release.
I don't think many OSes will just freeze all on its own. You have to introduce something to the environment that just doesn't sit well with it for it to freak out.
| Quote: | i love using Photoshop, If i switched to linux i'd have to use Gimp. You can't compare those two. You might be able to compare gimp to paintshop pro, or even paint.net but it can't even do alot of the simple tasks that photoshop can. Why limit myself? I'm not a hacker, nor a coder, or a computer person. Computer is just a habit ha, i don't know what you'd call me.
The photoshop thing is just an example of many software. They just can't compare. Although openoffice does a pretty good job, but if i already own ms office 2007 there is no point of downgrading. |
I definitely see what you mean here. I, for one, would probably never be able to just drop Photoshop or (if I was a video editor) Final Cut Pro for any sort of free alternative. They just aren't on the same level.
| Quote: | Not everyone wants to be a Microsoft Rebel. i love Microsoft products, they all work for me. Vista is flipping awesome and i never have any problems with it. So i don't wanna rebel or anything and downgrade myself. There are many others who feel the same way as i do.
But saying that. Again i would love to have more options. The only reason i choose windows, is because there is no other option unless i want to do less. Mac isn't even an option.
I'd rather use linux than a mac |
Well that last bit there is unfortunate. Care to detail why macs aren't an option to you?
I got my first Mac for my first semester of college just over a year ago, but I'm no anti-Microsoft weirdo. I still use Microsoft products (Office for Mac, Windows Live Messenger, etc) and I still know the ins and outs of Windows, I use Xbox 360 and I generally support a lot of the initiatives that Microsoft is involved with.
Still, unless you have a really good reason, I'd be tempted to call you ignorant for hating on macs. 
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Scar
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| Xtreme $niper wrote: |
Well that last bit there is unfortunate. Care to detail why macs aren't an option to you?
I got my first Mac for my first semester of college just over a year ago, but I'm no anti-Microsoft weirdo. I still use Microsoft products (Office for Mac, Windows Live Messenger, etc) and I still know the ins and outs of Windows, I use Xbox 360 and I generally support a lot of the initiatives that Microsoft is involved with.
Still, unless you have a really good reason, I'd be tempted to call you ignorant for hating on macs. |
I just don't see the point. More of my software is available for PC, and also there is no right mouse button/click i know you can enable this with addons and such, but thats a bit over doing it, an d it still isnt native to the os.
Also the font rendering On mac osx annoys me. The bold is too bold as i stated in my topic about safari, and it just looks weird to me.
Also i don't really like how the file manager works, It just doesn't seem to give me that much control. Maybe i need to play with it a bit more and figure everything out, but i like having more control over my OS and software, and settings.
I'm not saying OSx sucks or anything, i'm just saying it didn't do anything for me. Linux is more similar to Windows, and Mac osx is out there on its own in my opinion. Macs were some of the first pc's i ever used back in school though and When i was little i always wanted one.
I'm not totally against Mac though. I have a few times wanted to get another mac to see how much more productive i'd be on it with my graphic creations and other things since thats what macs good for: just working and getting stuff done but i'll have be a little bit more richer to afford something that I may not like, and not really need.
Again mac is just totally diff than a pc to me which is the only reason i don't count it in my decisions.
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LP-SolidRaven
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Joined: 06 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| Xtreme $niper wrote: | | Linux has a desktop market share of only a few percents, which means very few users. Add to this that operating systems are not in the top ten of conversation topics. Despite being a very convincing marketing method, word of mouth just takes a lot of time with these factors given. |
Another issue is that computer stores never really offer to install linux instead of windows.
| Xtreme $niper wrote: | | Also remember that Ubuntu's popularity has only taken off about a year ago (somewhere between 2006 and 2007). A year sounds like a lot if you look at advances in computer technology, but for people this is not a very long time. Changing the way you work with a computer is something that takes time and consideration, because a habit is something that people, by nature, hate to change. |
A habit is easy to change if there is a way between the two for a while.
| Xtreme $niper wrote: | | That's true. I guess only time will tell if linux will start getting more recognition. I think one of the main issues people have with it is that there are just so many distros to choose from, so where do you start? With Windows you may still have a bunch of choices but they are all essentially the same OS. Linux has such a broad variety of looks and types and options, it may just be too overwhelming to someone trying linux for the first time. |
"Oh nooooo I can actually choose how my desktop can work, it's overwhelming me", I don't see that as a very likely scenario. At first people will throw all types of graphics candy and useless tools on it. After a while they'll start throwing those out. After that they'll start binding keys to certain functions and just get rid of most of the buttons on the desktop and only have a few things left.
| Xtreme $niper wrote: | | Perhaps the linux community needs to do a better job of educating people? That costs nothing but time, which with a wiki page and some enthusiastic people probably wouldn't take all that long. |
see the ubuntu wiki, it's quite user-friendly.
| Xtreme $niper wrote: | | Heh, I agree. But the same goes with Macs. People say that OS X never freezes, and that it's so stable and sturdy and secure. Well, every OS has its down sides.. Every OS will crash at one point or another, since the programmers are still human. The main culprit for crashes a lot of the time is simply that some driver is faulty, or a program you are using was just not debugged properly before release. |
Windows can crash cause a program crashes. With linux, mac, freebsd, ... it's less likely the entire OS will crash cause a single program totally messed up. On an OS like linux, mac, bsd, ... it's usually driver issues that cause crashes.
| Xtreme $niper wrote: | | I don't think many OSes will just freeze all on its own. You have to introduce something to the environment that just doesn't sit well with it for it to freak out. |
Like service pack 1 on certain xp installs
| Xtreme $niper wrote: | | I definitely see what you mean here. I, for one, would probably never be able to just drop Photoshop or (if I was a video editor) Final Cut Pro for any sort of free alternative. They just aren't on the same level. |
Wine, anyone?
| Xtreme $niper wrote: | | Well that last bit there is unfortunate. Care to detail why macs aren't an option to you? |
Too expensive for what you get.
| Xtreme $niper wrote: | | Still, unless you have a really good reason, I'd be tempted to call you ignorant for hating on macs. |
I think the fact that macs cost so much is the main problem.
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<bart416> I just realized something
<bart416> we celebrate the fact that this piece of rock made one rotation around a glowing ball of plasma that is kept together due to its own gravity well
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krt
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| Xtreme $niper wrote: | | Perhaps the linux community needs to do a better job of educating people? That costs nothing but time, which with a wiki page and some enthusiastic people probably wouldn't take all that long. |
Exactly. Maybe an "experience linux" web interface mimicking an OS, half demo half interactive, guiding the user through typical tasks, dispelling myths about its looks, console dependence, lack of functionality etc. Basically something that doesn't require the time and knowledge for setting up and using live CDs.
Also, live CDs need to give a much better impression, or at least present some guidance. A "quick start" window would be ideal and could incorporate some of the concepts of the "experience linux" idea. |
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ClickFanatic
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| krt wrote: | | Xtreme $niper wrote: | | Perhaps the linux community needs to do a better job of educating people? That costs nothing but time, which with a wiki page and some enthusiastic people probably wouldn't take all that long. |
Exactly. Maybe an "experience linux" web interface mimicking an OS, half demo half interactive, guiding the user through typical tasks, dispelling myths about its looks, console dependence, lack of functionality etc. Basically something that doesn't require the time and knowledge for setting up and using live CDs.
Also, live CDs need to give a much better impression, or at least present some guidance. A "quick start" window would be ideal and could incorporate some of the concepts of the "experience linux" idea. |
Please don't hesitate to share your ideas: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/
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Rashy
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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As for Photoshop:
I disagree with you absolutely needing all the functionality of it. Gimp is quite powerful, and soon enough it will be releasing a new interface that will make it look more like a standard graphics editing program (read: more usable for those who don't want to figure out how to use it as it is now).
Also there is a.viary. I just received a beta invite to a.viary and it is a very powerful tool, especially considering that it is based on Flash. My only gripe with it is that it can be a bit slower unless you have a powerful computer, and that it does things a bit weird.
I have used Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro, and Gimp each quite extensively, and I have to say that out of them, Paint Shop Pro (version 9, Corel started killing it) was my favorite graphics editor. There has never been something in Photoshop that I couldn't do in Paint Shop Pro.
And as SolidRaven said, Photoshop is now supported in Wine, thanks in part to Google.
And I get random freezes in Vista. It comes after performing some action: opening a new tab in Firefox, starting Office, or something else and the entire system locks up. So unless there is some malware on my computer (God I hope not, I've reformatted my computer enough recently), then the OS is NOT stable (or at least not Toshiba's bastardization of Vista).
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Xtreme $niper
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Scar wrote: | | I just don't see the point. More of my software is available for PC, and also there is no right mouse button/click i know you can enable this with addons and such, but thats a bit over doing it, an d it still isnt native to the os. |
There is native right click. Either plug in a two button mouse, tap the trackpad on a laptop with two fingers, or left click while holding down the Command key. Problem solved. Most of the OS is designed so that you don't even have to right click most of the time. That's why it's never been introduced formally.
| Quote: | | Also the font rendering On mac osx annoys me. The bold is too bold as i stated in my topic about safari, and it just looks weird to me. |
If I remember correctly, you were using Safari on Windows. The font rendering on Safari running on Windows is not what you should be looking at to visualize what it would look like on OS X. The fonts on OS X look great. They can be thin, thick, doesn't matter. The whole point of it is to make the fonts look smooth, but unfortunately something makes them look bolded on Windows.
| Quote: | | Also i don't really like how the file manager works, It just doesn't seem to give me that much control. Maybe i need to play with it a bit more and figure everything out, but i like having more control over my OS and software, and settings. |
Keep in mind that OS X runs on Unix so you can easily go into Terminal and tweak to your hearts content. Finder is not the strong point in OS X these days, as demonstrated by the numerous Finder alternatives available on the market. But when it comes down to it I barely use Finder now for my day to day tasks so it doesn't bother me.
| Quote: | | Again mac is just totally diff than a pc to me which is the only reason i don't count it in my decisions. |
Well I don't agree that it's "totally different" but I can sort of understand where you are coming from.
Oh and SolidRaven, my experiences with Wine have not been great. It may be better now, but I've always experienced somewhat laggy performance from it.
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LP-SolidRaven
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:24 am Post subject: |
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Strange, I've had applications that run faster in wine than on windows. And Photoshop CS 2 works just fine in wine. Getting it to install might be a bit tricky sometimes but it's not that hard.
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<bart416> I just realized something
<bart416> we celebrate the fact that this piece of rock made one rotation around a glowing ball of plasma that is kept together due to its own gravity well
<njsg> HAPPY NEW YEAR
<Easter> ^^
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ClickFanatic
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| SolidRaven wrote: | | Strange, I've had applications that run faster in wine than on windows. |
How is that supposed to make sense? WINE has to 'translate' the program's system calls, so logically speaking it should be slower than Windows (or equally fast at best).
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LP-SolidRaven
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ClickFanatic wrote: | | SolidRaven wrote: | | Strange, I've had applications that run faster in wine than on windows. |
How is that supposed to make sense? WINE has to 'translate' the program's system calls, so logically speaking it should be slower than Windows (or equally fast at best). |
Good question indeed, but Starsiege: Tribes actually gets higher frame rates in wine on linux than on windows...
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| Quote: |
<bart416> I just realized something
<bart416> we celebrate the fact that this piece of rock made one rotation around a glowing ball of plasma that is kept together due to its own gravity well
<njsg> HAPPY NEW YEAR
<Easter> ^^
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Rashy
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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Erm... where the computers of equal specs? Additionally it could be that Linux just executes its system calls faster than windows, as such the "translation" time is negated.
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LP-SolidRaven
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| Rashy wrote: | | Erm... where the computers of equal specs? Additionally it could be that Linux just executes its system calls faster than windows, as such the "translation" time is negated. |
Uhm it's on the same computer.
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| Quote: |
<bart416> I just realized something
<bart416> we celebrate the fact that this piece of rock made one rotation around a glowing ball of plasma that is kept together due to its own gravity well
<njsg> HAPPY NEW YEAR
<Easter> ^^
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