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Xtreme $niper
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Location: Canada
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 Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject: Mercy Killing: A Reasonable Request Or Murder? |
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Today I read a news article ( http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_15844.aspx ) about how an elderly couple seemed to have committed a murder suicide in the form of assisted suicide. This article talks about the concept of if assisted suicide should be made legal or not.
The text is as follows:
| Quote: | As residents in the Warden and Ellesmere area mourn a couple who were fixtures in their neighbourhood, many are at a loss to figure out what terrible misery could have driven a man to kill his wife and then himself.
But Raymon Smith understands the feeling. Or at least he's afraid he might one day. The Toronto senior is caring for his spouse who's suffering from a variety of serious ailments. "My wife has Alzheimer's, congestive heart failure, anemic, and a diabetic. So it can be overwhelming."
He faces an impossible schedule and he's been forced to do it on his own, day after day, with no spare moments for himself. "I think everybody has a breaking point, and I guess Ed reached it," he surmises about the man found dead in his garage Wednesday morning. "And I don't want to do that."
Ray and Helen Smith have been together for more than 50 years. But as much as he loves his wife, he'd like to be able to find time for a small break during the day - even if it's just occasionally. Help is available but it's costly. Hiring a person to sit for just one day a month would set him back $500 - an amount he can't afford.
"Once a month," he muses with an audible note of fatigue in his voice. "Does that sound unreasonable?"
At which point his wife chimes in with a question of her own: "Do I get one, too?"
The Euthanasia Prevention Coalition knows what people like Smith are facing. "We as a society have an obligation to insure that each of our citizens is accounted for," demands spokesman Hugh Scher. "And by that what I mean is that the support that they require is made accessible and available to them."
Ray knows that's a worthy goal that's not here yet. But at 70, he wonders how much longer he can manage this battle alone. "Maybe you don't notice it yourself, and I hope somebody tells me, like my kids: dad, it's time, you know ... [time to get] support or put her in one of the nice facilities to look after her," he concludes with a grimace.
So what keeps him going through it all? The same thing that always has. "We love each other," he answers simply.
The issue will be front and centre when Toronto plays host to the first International Symposium on Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide. It takes place at the end of November.
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Those who support the idea of assisted suicide argue that pets are put down to avoid suffering and people shouldn't be made to bear pain when there's no hope of alleviating it. Opponents feel only God can take a life and it's impossible to know exactly when that life becomes unbearable.
The Criminal Code of Canada contains two sections that appear to pertain to mercy killing:
"14. No person is entitled to consent to have death inflicted on him, and such consent does not affect the criminal responsibility of any person by whom death may be inflicted on the person by whom consent is given."
And
"241. Everyone who counsels a person to commit suicide or aids or abets a person to commit suicide, whether suicide ensues or not, is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years."
But the truth is not even the law seems able to decide for sure what to do in different cases. Here's a look at some of the more famous instances of mercy killing and compassionate murder, and the different punishments accorded to those involved.
1985: Toronto
Lois Wilson helps her boyfriend drown himself after both believe he's been diagnosed with incurable stomach cancer. She pleads guilty and receives a six-month sentence.
1985: Montreal
Bruno Bergeron kills his 94-year-old Alzheimer-stricken wife with an axe because he can no longer care for her. He pleads guilty to the killing but receives a suspended sentence.
1990: Vancouver
David Lewis helps put an end to the lives of eight patients suffering from AIDS. He was going to be charged with murder, but the counts are never laid. Lewis refused to reveal the names of those he'd help die and there wasn't enough evidence to pursue further charges.
1993: Wilkie, Saskatchewan
Canada's most famous, controversial and heart-wrenching case. Farmer Robert Latimer feels his 12-year-old daughter, who has cerebral palsy, is suffering and that her pain will only get worse. So he places her in his truck, attaches a hose to his exhaust and puts her to sleep with carbon monoxide. His first-degree murder charge is reduced to a second-degree plea and amid cries of outrage from supporters, he's found guilty and sentenced to life in prison with no parole for ten years.
He gets a new trial over allegations of jury tampering and is again found guilty of second-degree murder in December 1997. But the judge surprises the country by ordering Latimer to serve two years less a day. After another appeal, the ten year sentence is re-imposed. The case reaches the Supreme Court in 2001, and the judges uphold the conviction and the sentence, noting a section of the Criminal Code allows for mercy - but that's not something they have the jurisdiction to rule on.
1994: Victoria
Another famous case. Terminally ill cancer patient Sue Rodriguez takes her right-to-die campaign all the way to the Supreme Court, which dismisses her appeal on the Criminal Code prohibitions against assisted suicide. A few months later, she convinces a physician to help end her life. Police investigate but no charges are laid.
1994: Halifax
Mary Jane Fogarty writes a suicide note on behalf of her friend, then provides her with a lethal dose of insulin. She was found guilty of aiding the suicide, but her sentence was suspended and she never served any jail time.
1994: Edmonton
Robert Cashin gives his terminally ill mother an overdose of sedatives. He is found guilty of administering a noxious substance and gets two years probation.
1996: Toronto
Maurice Genereux is a doctor who gave two HIV-positive patients enough barbiturates to allow them to deliberately overdose. He was jailed for two years.
1997: Halifax
Dr. Nancy Morrison gives a terminally ill and pain-wracked patient a deadly potassium chloride injection. Her first degree-murder charge is later reduced to manslaughter. But the case never reaches the court, because a judge decides there's not enough evidence to proceed.
2000: Montreal
Herbert Lerner kills his wife who is suffering from Alzheimer's. He's convicted of manslaughter and receives a 5-year sentence, because the judge rules the woman was only in the early stages of the disease and could have had a good quality of life for some time to come. A year later, Lerner himself commits suicide.
2001: Moncton, New Brunswick
A bizarre case involving two men, Richard Trites and Michael Breau. They helped a man named Dan Horsman kill himself. But the victim asked that it look like a murder so his wife could collect his insurance. The charges against Breau were dropped while Trites was found guilty. But his sentence was suspended.
2004: Montreal
A mother named Marielle Houle helps her sick son end his life. She's found guilty but her sentence is suspended.
Sources: Right To Die Society and Canadian government. |
So I was just wondering what people on here would have to say about the subject? I know that there are people from places around the world, so it would be good to get some opinions from different cultures instead of just ones from Canada.
So have at it.
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marinaroz
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:24 am Post subject: |
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I think a person should be able to choose to die, if they want to. It's very cruel to keep someone alive when that person suffers terrible pains and doesn't want to live that way at all.
The only problem I see with assisted suicide is that the choice should be only and definitely of the person who wishes to die. Not their parent or their child or their spouse or their doctor should be allowed to make that choice.
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Rashy
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:43 am Post subject: |
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It seems that the only argument the opposition has to assisted suicide is "Its only God's right to take away a life." More or less it sounds like Christian's trying to push their beliefs on everybody again, not realizing that not everybody follows their religion. Its just like the abortion argument. This is a personal choice, one that others should not be trying to make for you.
I think it is kind of funny that according to Canadian law, you can go to jail for attempting to commit (unassisted) suicide.
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Xtreme $niper
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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While I agree that if somebody really wants to end their life, then they should probably have the choice to do so (unless it's just being done as a way to attract attention to themselves). However, how can you tell the difference between assisted suicide and murder?
A written note, perhaps? Who says it wasn't forged? That's what makes it difficult to determine or even enforce.
As for the religious aspect, I also agree with that. Americans may live in a Catholic country, but Canadians pride themselves for their diversity.. so needless to say it's silly to think that everyone is Christian... I think for those non-believers who still are opposition to this argument, they probably believe that one should live and die according to what happens on a day to day basis, rather than making the decision to cut your own life short.... I'm not sure if I expressed that thought properly but it made more sense in my head.
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Rashy
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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I would hardly say that America is a Catholic country (http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html#attendance). Only 24% (although that is the largest of a single religion, it is hardly the majority of America)
| Quote: | While I agree that if somebody really wants to end their life, then they should probably have the choice to do so (unless it's just being done as a way to attract attention to themselves). However, how can you tell the difference between assisted suicide and murder?
A written note, perhaps? Who says it wasn't forged? That's what makes it difficult to determine or even enforce. |
You would need to have plenty of witnesses 
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coralvalley
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:14 am Post subject: |
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Personally I believe that it is a person's right to choose what to do with their live and live it the way that they wish. That being said I will try not to get into the religious reasons why assisted suicide or even suicide in general is frowned upon and I will focus on a reason why this subject is one that makes me a bit uneasy.
Truth be told when I was reading that article I kept thinking about the man who was talking about his sick wife and how he just would like to have a day to himself. He kept going on and on about how he would like the freedom without the financial responsibility involved to go out and enjoy his life. While I don't doubt that is the case, it doesn't sound as if he would consider an assisted suicide for his wife because he wants to end her suffering, but rather he would like to escape his. He would like to not be bothered by the responsibilities that come along with the marriage vows of the whole sickness and in health part. While I am sure that was not his intentions, he really came off as someone who was interested in being able to go out and do what he wanted in his life as opposed to what was really best for his wife. I know that's probably not where the guy was headed in his statements, but it reminded me of when my grandmother was sick and dying. My grandfather was at her side taking care of her and seemingly miserable in watching her all the time, but he never complained. He continued to take care of her and once she died he started living like a teenager and making the most of every moment. I would believe it was hard on him, but I don't think he ever wished to just end it all for my grandmother to make his life easier.
The reason why I bring this up is because while I believe someone should be able to choose what is right for them? How can you be sure in all cases it is what someone claims it to be? How do we know that someone isn't just murdering another person and then later saying that the person was sick or in desperate need in help with ending their life. I think in that particular situation the lines can get blurred and while I'm sure there are some real cases out there with people who truly want help in ending their life, I think if there was a legalization of it, we would see murderers using the defense that they were only assisting a suicide. It would get sketchy on what was legit and what wasn't and I would imagine that the courts would have a hard time proving which is the truth behind the case. I think it's just something that opens up a lot of confusion and controversy that goes well beyond religious. I really think that by making it legal to be a part of assisted suicide that it opens up the doors to other problems along the way for those cases that are not on the up and up and someone has an ulterior motive for ending another person's life. That is just me however. |
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Xtreme $niper
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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@ Rashy:
Well to be honest I only called America a Catholic country because the President seems to assume so. Most of the laws in the country are based upon religion, and Bush himself is a devout Catholic (possibly to the extreme).
@ coralvalley:
I see what you mean. My grandparents are in a similar situation, with my grandmother being sick and my grandfather taking care of her.. He is tired and depressed almost all of the time, so we try to visit often to cheer them up.
I agree that if they legalized assisted suicide, the number of murders using it as an excuse would skyrocket. It's disappointing that we can't even trust our own kind in these kinds of matters, but it's true.
I don't think many people (especially those who are married) would assist in the suicide of the other just to free themselves from the pain and stress of taking care of their significant other... Unless, of course, the significant other really demands it for some reason.
I think maybe the topic of assisted suicide should remain in the "grey area" of law, because specifically declaring it to be either legal or illegal can both have their downsides.
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Rashy
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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It is very true that our nation's laws are heavily influenced by Christianity (although if you are linuxdoctor you could certainly argue that they are one and the same  ).
There are a couple of problems with the first case.
1) He administered the death, making it a killing, and not a suicide.
2) There were no witnesses as would/should be required in an assisted suicide.
3) It did not occur in a medical facility as would/should be required. Nor was he a medical professional who could make such a diagnosis as he did.
I believe that assisted suicide simply means an individual providing the means to kill oneself, not actually administering the death. In my mind it seems very clear that the old man committed murder, driven to the breaking point by constantly having to care for his wife. I believe that this would be more a flaw in the American health care system than in the man's personality (right word?) though.
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Xtreme $niper
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately this case occurred in Canada, thus negating the point that it would be a flaw in the American health care system. In Canada, OSAP covers all health care costs for you (paid for by taxes) so you get your treatment paid for you by the citizens of the country. I can't see the health care system being at fault in this particular case, unless they were on a waiting list for a surgery that was just taking too long to get around to.
As for being the one administering the death instead of providing the means to kill oneself.... that should probably be right most of the time, but what if this particular person was incapable to end their own life? It could be some sort of disability that does not allow them to do it themselves, thus needing the assistance of another to do it for them. This seems likely in many cases because these people are all in need of almost constant supervision and aid, so who is to say they are capable of ending their own lives?
Anyways, I also agree that there should be the intervention of some sort of medical professional to diagnose if the case really is so bad as to end somebody's life for them... But then again, if the person who is experiencing the pain wants out, then why should anyone have the authority to stop them? As long as they don't harm anyone else in the process, I guess...
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Kilter
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| I believe that if someone wishes to take their life, they should be allowed to do so. That being said, I think they should do it themselves, if possible. |
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darksfear
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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If a person chose they want to end their life then so be it.
As long as there is enough evidence supporting the fact that they want to end their life (e.g. going to a court, declaring and signing a paper saying they want to end their own life etc etc.), a person helping should not be charged in my opinion.
The person that wants to end their life would probably need to write up a list of people that can help end his/her life, although that is just my guess.
Some people will probably argue if they want to end their life, who cares who does it/who helps?
That is all.
Cheers. |
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Voldemort
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:21 am Post subject: |
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There isn't much anyone can do (except psychological support) to prevent someone from killing himself. But helping someone do it is a bit over the edge in my opinion.  I don't think it should be allowed, and if someone wants desperately to die he could do it on his own, instead of persuading someone else do it and make him suffer the rest of his life.. 
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spock
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| marinaroz wrote: | I think a person should be able to choose to die, if they want to. It's very cruel to keep someone alive when that person suffers terrible pains and doesn't want to live that way at all.
The only problem I see with assisted suicide is that the choice should be only and definitely of the person who wishes to die. Not their parent or their child or their spouse or their doctor should be allowed to make that choice. |
Well, in my country it's legal for doctors to commit euthanasia on a patient.
Though there are some very strict rules about it,and the person itself has to make the decision too.
I believe that's a good thing. If someone is suffering from pains, a severe deadly illness and he or she doesn't want to live anymore, why wouldn't they have a right to decide that they want to die? And why would a doctor helping them wouldn't have the right to do so?
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Xtreme $niper
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Voldemort wrote: | | There isn't much anyone can do (except psychological support) to prevent someone from killing himself. But helping someone do it is a bit over the edge in my opinion. I don't think it should be allowed, and if someone wants desperately to die he could do it on his own, instead of persuading someone else do it and make him suffer the rest of his life.. |
Well that's the thing. What if the person who want's to end their own life can't do it themselves? Maybe the reason why they want to end their own life is because of the enourmous pains that they are experiencing, tied in with the fact that they may not be able to manouver themselves around their own house anymore, or even dress themselves.
That's where assisted suicide comes into play anyway. It usually is for those elder people who no longer have the energy or the ability to take care of themselves any longer, and they just feel like every day is a hassle for those who are taking care of them.
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