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OpenOffice Writer vs MS Word

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ClickFanatic
Est. 2005

Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 4569
Location: 37°45'18.24"N 14°59'42.9"E

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:32 pm Post subject:

mcwkm wrote:

ClickFanatic wrote:

Why is this no problem with OpenDocument formats?
Even if all the applications in the world that support the format went to dust, you can always hire a programmer to implement the open standard for the OpenDocument file formats.

That statement is useless seeing how if Microsoft Office went to dust you could always hire a programmer to hack a way into your data which you have rights to access. Also the whole situation is pointless because anyone using this software contains a license to the current version and can continue using that software as long as they want to access data.

How is the programmer going to find out how the file format works? Even today, much of the Office file format remains a mystery. I'd much rather have my data in a document that can be parsed with little effort after reading through the specifications.

mcwkm wrote:

But I completely agree with you that Open file formats are the better option but when the majority of the market uses a office suite that does not support the open standard you really have no choice in using other file formats to keep compatibility with them.

Thanks for agreeing, but you do have a choice. You can switch to OpenOffice, which is free, and learn how to use it, which is quite trivial since many of the features are so similar.

Besides, nobody thusfar has specified what OpenOffice lacks compared to MS Office. So we can, at this moment, safely conclude that switching doesn't limit the possibilities.

As for the file compatibility argument. Everyone can open OpenDocument files. With an open file format and a free viewer/editor, there are simply no excuses not to use it.

mcwkm wrote:

ClickFanatic wrote:

I don't see why Linux has to be brought into the discussion. This thread is only about office applications and their document formats. Operating systems and their fanboys are irrelevant.

We both know why this thread was started and a comparison between Microsoft Word and OpenOffice Writer was not the reasons.

Then tell me why this thread was started, because linuxdoctor clearly states his motivation.
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Xtreme $niper
Lifeless Person

Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 1766
Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:40 pm Post subject:

I don't think anyone is in any position to protest a university's decision to teach courses using Excel. Their purpose is to build your skills for the real world beyond the walls of the school. If they teach you Excel, you'll put it on your resume and go out to the work force and be ready to work right away. If you put OpenOffice on your resume, you're going to have a tough time getting an employer to even know what that is, let alone tolerate any "training" time getting used to Excel because you didn't want to buy a license for yourself at home. I'm talking on the level of the average joe here, not techies that would know the difference and know how to explain the differences between the two. _________________ Come visit Shattered Abstracts! (Photoblog!)

ClickFanatic
Est. 2005

Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 4569
Location: 37°45'18.24"N 14°59'42.9"E

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:59 pm Post subject:

Xtreme $niper wrote:

I don't think anyone is in any position to protest a university's decision to teach courses using Excel. Their purpose is to build your skills for the real world beyond the walls of the school. If they teach you Excel, you'll put it on your resume and go out to the work force and be ready to work right away.

If you put OpenOffice on your resume, you're going to have a tough time getting an employer to even know what that is, let alone tolerate any "training" time getting used to Excel because you didn't want to buy a license for yourself at home.

I'm talking on the level of the average joe here, not techies that would know the difference and know how to explain the differences between the two.

That's exactly the problem. A university shouldn't teach students to use Excel or Calc specificly, but rather the concepts behind spreadsheeting. The basic idea of spreadsheeting is similar for all these applications.

In the end, software skills come down to knowing in which toolbar or menu a certain feature can be found. This is something everyone can learn at home or in practice in a relatively short time, especially if the concepts of the tool are understood.
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mcwkm
Lifeless Person

Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Posts: 732
Location: ct

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:19 pm Post subject:

ClickFanatic wrote:

In order to teach these concepts you need to actually use a piece of software for the students to get experience and every professor I have had has used Excel based on it being the real world standard. My school happens to have Microsoft Office 03, 07 and OpenOffice(I don't know the version) in most of the labs but all the professors generally teach to Microsoft Office 07 now.

ClickFanatic wrote:

Thanks for agreeing, but you do have a choice. You can switch to OpenOffice, which is free, and learn how to use it, which is quite trivial since many of the features are so similar.

I do use OpenOffice Writer or Abiword for all my word processing and I do save in open file formats but when I am working with multiple people on projects, no one else can access those documents unless I convert them into Microsoft supported formats. None of these people have even heard of OpenOffice before and they don't even understand the benefits of using something that is open.
I also use Calc or GNumeric unless I run into a problem

ClickFanatic wrote:

Besides, nobody thusfar has specified what OpenOffice lacks compared to MS Office. So we can, at this moment, safely conclude that switching doesn't limit the possibilities.

http://74.125.47.132/custom?q=.....1971271392
also
http://www.idealware.org/artic.....office.php
We have all seen articles before I am not rewriting what is on these. My number one problem with OpenOffice is graphing functions in Calc which don't match up to those of Excel. Also just because I have used Excel since elementary school it is just easier for me to navigate anything past a basic function so something requiring an advanced feature is easier for me.

ClickFanatic wrote:

As long as you can get the data out of these file types it doesn't matter if the actual formatting and everything has changed.
This really does not matter seeing how any program is never going to disappear and if someone created a file in these formats, he should have a copy of the software that was used to create it or at least access to one.

ClickFanatic wrote:

As for the file compatibility argument. Everyone can open OpenDocument files. With an open file format and a free viewer/editor, there are simply no excuses not to use it.

People work with others and when someone is using the business standard for their software, they see no reason for them to go out of their way to support anything different. Office suites are used by everyone not just those who are computer savvy and have less objections to adding another program or trying some new software.

ClickFanatic wrote:

Then tell me why this thread was started, because linuxdoctor clearly states his motivation.

linuxdoctor refuses to let anything produced by Microsoft to be acknowledged as better software. This is just another spot to flame Microsoft and promote linux and open source software via Office Suites.

LP-SolidRaven
Evil Belgian Waffle

Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 7983
Location: Belgium

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:09 am Post subject:

You don't use a spreadsheet program to graph functions. You use something like MathCad or Derive for that... _________________ Dilly dally, shilly shally.

mcwkm
Lifeless Person

Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Posts: 732
Location: ct

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject:

LP-SolidRaven wrote:

You don't use a spreadsheet program to graph functions. You use something like MathCad or Derive for that...

Simple graphing is done in Excel. Any presentation done in business that needs an easy way to show data rather than strictly figures is done in spreadsheet programs.
I guess I did use a bad term there I should have said charts and graphs rather than graphing functions.

ClickFanatic
Est. 2005

Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 4569
Location: 37°45'18.24"N 14°59'42.9"E

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject:

mcwkm wrote:

ClickFanatic wrote:

They're doing it wrong. Smile

mcwkm wrote:

ClickFanatic wrote:

Thanks for agreeing, but you do have a choice. You can switch to OpenOffice, which is free, and learn how to use it, which is quite trivial since many of the features are so similar.

Ironically, the OpenDocument format is more suitable for collaboration because it gives people the freedom to use their favourite tool. Due to historical and educational reasons (like the one you just mentioned), many people prefer to use the same software, but this actually harms collaboration.
But since the costs and effort of using OpenOffice are near to nothing, your friends shouldn't have much trouble opening the files.

Besides, I believe new versions of MS Office are going to (or already do) support OpenDocument. At least there should be a plugin of some kind. Rolling Eyes

I know, in practice, they do find it troublesome. Because in the context of having to finish something (usually in not a very generous amount of time) you don't really want to try new software. It's not an excuse to never make the switch, though.

mcwkm wrote:

ClickFanatic wrote:

Besides, nobody thusfar has specified what OpenOffice lacks compared to MS Office. So we can, at this moment, safely conclude that switching doesn't limit the possibilities.

I wish I could read both those articles word for word, but I only have time to skim the content.
Both articles are over a year old, by the way, although the content seems pretty accurate.

They actually support what has been claimed in favour of OpenOffice so far; it doesn't lack anything significant.

The things MS Office has and OpenOffice hasn't are more a matter of compatibility (ie. OpenOffice doesn't support Word macros, but Writer macros) and not a difference in feature set.
Also, I read that Word can create animated text, whereas Writer can't. Who needs animated text? You can't print it.

mcwkm wrote:

ClickFanatic wrote:

Well, as you can see in the links you posted yourself, the difficulties are usually in the advanced features. OpenOffice's support for MS Office documents is a good measure for what amount of the format is currently understood.

Most people will not immediately throw away old software, but if no new versions are coming you have to rely on tools that will convert your obsolete documents to a usable format. The question is if those tools are sufficient. But it's very easy to avoid the risk, simply by using a standard, open format.

mcwkm wrote:

ClickFanatic wrote:

As for the file compatibility argument. Everyone can open OpenDocument files. With an open file format and a free viewer/editor, there are simply no excuses not to use it.

The installation process of OpenOffice is really easy. It even defaults to not associating MS Office formats, so your default way of working is not altered.
Besides, very few people even bother to think about installing software like Adobe Acrobat (which, fyi, is really bloated) on their system just to view a PDF. Why would they have a problem doing this for other file formats, like OpenDocument?

mcwkm wrote:

That both topics are parallel doesn't mean that they're related.
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mcwkm
Lifeless Person

Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Posts: 732
Location: ct

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:31 pm Post subject:

ClickFanatic wrote:

Microsoft Office has support to very old versions so you can access the documents in the newer versions. I have never ran into a problem with this and don't know anyone who has and I am dating back to the original releases. But when a document was edited in a newer version and people did not need to access it in the old form it would always be saved in the newer version.

ClickFanatic wrote:

Here is the dialogue I would likely experience with most people.
me - So why don't you try OpenOffice, it's free and will give you more compatibility with other peoples documents?
them - Wait so it does the same thing as Microsoft Office? If thats the case I can't be bothered.
me - I can even install it for you.
them - Why bother I have the same thing in Microsoft Office. (It is just more clutter for my computer.) And doesn't this OpenOffice support my Microsoft Office documents anyway.
me - Well it does for the most part support Microsoft Office documents, mostly you run into formatting errors.

Normal people just can't be bothered trying out new software when they have something that works and does exactly the same thing.

I happen to use both. May preferences happen to be Abiword for notetaking, OpenOffice Writer for long documents, Excel for spreadsheets and Powerpoint for presentations. It all comes down to preferences. Office software doesn't vary that much and most people use what they know. Microsoft Office happens to be the business standard so saying you are trained on that instead of OpenOffice at an interview or job application, you are going to be looked at as a better option then someone just mentioning OpenOffice. Now to avoid this I would just say both and expect the question "What is OpenOffice?"

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