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The Grinch
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 Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:28 pm Post subject: Secret No More: Revealing Windows XP Mode for Windows 7 |
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| Quote: | Rafael Rivera and Paul Thurrott reveal a new Windows 7 application compatibility feature called Windows XP Mode. Yes, it's that "secret new feature" you've been hearing about ...
Over a month ago, we were briefed about a secret Microsoft technology that we were told would be announced alongside the Windows 7 Release Candidate (RC) and would ship in final form simultaneously with the final version of Windows 7. This technology, dubbed Windows XP Mode (XPM, formerly Virtual Windows XP or Virtual XP, VXP), dramatically changes the compatibility story for Windows 7 and, we believe, has serious implications for Windows development going forward. Here's what's happening.
XPM is built on the next generation Microsoft Virtual PC 7 product line, which requires processor-based virtualization support (Intel and AMD) to be present and enabled on the underlying PC, much like Hyper-V, Microsoft's server-side virtualization platform. However, XPM is not Hyper-V for the client. It is instead a host-based virtualization solution like Virtual PC; the hardware assistance requirement suggests this will be the logical conclusion of this product line from a technological standpoint. That is, we fully expect future client versions of Windows to include a Hyper-V-based hypervisor.
http://www.winsupersite.com/im.....tualxp.jpg
Windows XP Mode running Word 2003 under XP and Word 2007 under Windows 7.
XP Mode consists of the Virtual PC-based virtual environment and a fully licensed copy of Windows XP with Service Pack 3 (SP3). It will be made available, for free, to users of Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise, and Ultimate editions via a download from the Microsoft web site. (That is, it will not be included in the box with Windows 7, but is considered an out-of-band update, like Windows Live Essentials.) XPM works much like today's Virtual PC products, but with one important exception: As with the enterprise-based MED-V (Microsoft Enterprise Desktop Virtualization) product, XPM does not require you to run the virtual environment as a separate Windows desktop. Instead, as you install applications inside the virtual XP environment, they are published to the host (Windows 7) OS as well. (With shortcuts placed in the Start Menu.) That way, users can run Windows XP-based applications (like IE 6) alongside Windows 7 applications under a single desktop.
Obviously, XPM has huge ramifications for Windows going forward. By removing the onus of legacy application compatibility from the OS, Microsoft can strip away deadwood technology from future versions of Windows at a speedier clip, because customers who need to run older applications can simply do so with XPM. For Windows 7 specifically, XPM is a huge convenience, especially for Microsoft's corporate customers, who can of course control XPM behavior via standard Microsoft administration and management technologies like Active Directory (AD) and Group Policy (GP). And it significantly recasts the Windows 7 compatibility picture. Before, Microsoft could claim that Windows 7 would be at least as compatible as Windows Vista. Now, they can claim almost complete Windows XP compatibility, or almost 100 percent compatibility with all currently running Windows applications.
We've both been using and testing Virtual XP for over a month and we we've been dying to communicate what we've discovered, as you might imagine. So here's what you can expect. Paul will publish a high-level screenshot gallery on the SuperSite for Windows showing off Windows XP Mode and what it's like to run Windows XP and Windows 7 applications side-by-side. On Within Windows, Rafael will provide a deep technical dive into Windows XP Mode and explain how it works and how you can make it work the way you want. Later, Paul will add a Windows XP Mode article to his Windows 7 Feature Focus series as well. And of course we'll be covering this feature in-depth in "Windows 7 Secrets," which will be published by Wiley & Sons later this year.
Thanks for reading!
Paul and Rafael |
http://community.winsupersite......fault.aspx
:d
Some of you who always bring up the incompatibility issue with vista and started to with 7, can now be happy. 
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LP-Trel
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm.. eau de rodent is in the air.
This isn't some type of revolutionary technology that allows Windows XP Compatibility Mode in Windows 7. They're just giving you virtualization software (like VirtualBox) and a "free" copy of Windows XP SP3 if you buy a more expensive version of Windows 7.
That sure is "amazing" stuff Microsoft. Congratulations. 
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The Grinch
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| LP-Trel wrote: | Hmm.. eau de rodent is in the air.
This isn't some type of revolutionary technology that allows Windows XP Compatibility Mode in Windows 7. They're just giving you virtualization software (like VirtualBox) and a "free" copy of Windows XP SP3 if you buy a more expensive version of Windows 7.
That sure is "amazing" stuff Microsoft. Congratulations. |
yeah, but unlike that software, it seems to be running in the background, so that you can actually run old software inside windows 7, while its working on windows xp underneath (at least thats what i get from it).
I'm not too excited, or too worried about this either way because i never run into the problem of having to use ancient software.
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LP-Trel
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| The Grinch wrote: |
yeah, but unlike that software, it seems to be running in the background, so that you can actually run old software inside windows 7, while its working on windows xp underneath (at least thats what i get from it).
I'm not too excited, or too worried about this either way because i never run into the problem of having to use ancient software. |
Virtualbox has a seamless mode too.
You still need to boot two operating systems for it to work which will hinder your computer with the weight of booting 2 separate Windows OS images.
It isn't a bad feature, but it looks like a workaround they cobbled together to offer "compatibility" on the cheap.
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LP-SolidRaven
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:07 am Post subject: |
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Oh, sure lets just run yet another OS on our computer at the same time, that'll be sure to increase performance >_>
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The Grinch
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, you're negative replies were so predicted and expected. that's funny. Never let me down do ya?
This feature is really intended for cooperates who have the right hardware and the actual need need to run older software. Not very many intelligent individual consumers will need to run old software/ or hardware.
Solid, in one of your rants about windows sucking and the incompatibility issue (another topic), i asked you why would a normal user ever see not run old software, since they wouldn't even be using a new os if they cant afford the software alone (or no interest in upgrading period), and you said its mostly large corporation who reply on older technology. So there you go. Microsoft developed a easy solution for them; problem solved.
This feature is only going to be included in the Ultimate, and Enterprise editions of 7.
Either way, computers designed for Vista, or 7 should be able to have two os's running at the same time without a problem.
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LP-SolidRaven
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| The Grinch wrote: | | This feature is really intended for cooperates who have the right hardware and the actual need need to run older software. Not very many intelligent individual consumers will need to run old software/ or hardware. |
Companies don't need "Windows 7 Ultimate" or whatever they're going to call it. Companies want minimalist distributions in most scenarios, not Vista/Windows 7 Ultimate or Enterprise.
| Quote: | | Solid, in one of your rants about windows sucking and the incompatibility issue (another topic), i asked you why would a normal user ever see not run old software, since they wouldn't even be using a new os if they cant afford the software alone (or no interest in upgrading period), and you said its mostly large corporation who reply on older technology. So there you go. Microsoft developed a easy solution for them; problem solved. |
I never said such a thing as companies mainly relying on older technology. I only stated that in corporate environment there is no incentive to go to vista if it claims full backwards compatibility but it can't even run the old software correctly. Additionally I provided links to information to prove my point with AutoCAD as example (2 years of almost no new features to get it vista compatible).
| Quote: | | Either way, computers designed for Vista, or 7 should be able to have two os's running at the same time without a problem. |
That's just plain crap, the system requirements for virtualisation depend on the software you wish to virtualize. Ironically the professional software that might need to be virtualized will be extremely expensive in terms of resources in quite a few cases. Anything that isn't accounting software will get tricky fairly soon. If it goes for simulation software to give an example (and they don't release yearly versions for simulation software in fact) you'll still be faced with the choice, inefficient vista or windows 7 OR you could go for server 2003 and windows xp professional that outperforms your virtualisation in any scenario. Then again I don't expect you to accept this fact as you are clearly biased towards believing anything you find in microsoft press releases.
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The Grinch
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LP-Trel
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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I make no secret of the fact I hate Windows and most Microsoft software. The endless headaches attempting to support Outlook, Exchange, and various other Windows "solutions" over the years combined with Microsoft's attitude towards compatibility helped to ingrain that into me. I also believe I'm completely justified after the 17th time friends, family, strangers, and enemies brought their computers to me to fix because of Yet Another Windows Virus(tm).
To address the topic specifically:
Where is the incentive for companies to upgrade to Windows 7 if they rely on incompatible software?
New interface to train employees to use, new software for IT to support, license/hardware/etc costs in a recession, and a variety of other problems will slow the adoption of the OS anyway.
Solutions like software from Xen, VMWare, or Cirtrix Systems are a more likely migration path for larger companies looking to reduce compatibility problems. Dynamic profiles based on virtualized Windows XP (or Windows 7, Linux, etc) are loaded onto the desktop from a server depending on the login which allows for immediate and secure access to user's desktop from any computer on the network. It also allows for NAS based backups and a host of other enterprise friendly features for occasions such as when a user happens to download a virus.
Now Windows XP SP3 with Hyper-V based virtualization in a neat package isn't a bad idea, but it reeks of a bad hack stopgap type feature so Microsoft can claim compatibility with minimal actual work. The problem with this is Microsoft will only offer it with the more expensive versions of Windows and that is annoying.
Just my two cents of course. |
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LP-SolidRaven
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:54 am Post subject: |
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| The Grinch wrote: | | LP-SolidRaven wrote: | | Additionally I provided links to information to prove my point with AutoCAD as example (2 years of almost no new features to get it vista compatible). |
The latest version of AutoCad works with vista just fine.
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/s.....ID=9240617
so prove another. |
Stop twisting people's words. Did I claim it didn't work with vista? I only said it took them two years of modifications to get it to work properly with vista. Only in the last version they started adding new features again.
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LP-Trel
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| LP-SolidRaven wrote: | | The Grinch wrote: | | LP-SolidRaven wrote: | | Additionally I provided links to information to prove my point with AutoCAD as example (2 years of almost no new features to get it vista compatible). |
The latest version of AutoCad works with vista just fine.
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/s.....ID=9240617
so prove another. |
Stop twisting people's words. Did I claim it didn't work with vista? I only said it took them two years of modifications to get it to work properly with vista. Only in the last version they started adding new features again. |
We do have to be fair to TheGrinch here too. AutoCad isn't a very good example as most people that need to run an application like that won't have a problem building a machine to run it regardless of the software requirements (XP SP3, Windows Vista SP-97A4, etc).
This is also more of an AutoCad problem than a Microsoft problem as they had ample time to prepare their software for Windows Vista before it was released. The only last minute disastrous change Microsoft made that also hurt third party developers was the change in requirements for some hardware drivers like video card drivers and Microsoft paid a heavy price for that too.
Last edited by LP-Trel on Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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LP-SolidRaven
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:46 am Post subject: |
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I was giving an example Trel. Quite some software's 2008 and 2009 versions have one new feature. Vista support.
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Xtreme $niper
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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I think it's funny that in the other thread on here ("is vista oversecure?") we've been talking back and forth about how what Microsoft really needs to do is strip away the legacy compatibility layers in Windows and just re-create a brand new OS with fresh new code, and then provide a way for people to run their old legacy software on an emulated compatibility layer that is installed OPTIONALLY at the user's discretion, ala X11 or Wine.
And here we are, with (what seems to be) almost exactly that. Let's just hope they really did get rid of a lot of legacy code here, otherwise this is useless.
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LP-Trel
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Xtreme $niper wrote: | I think it's funny that in the other thread on here ("is vista oversecure?") we've been talking back and forth about how what Microsoft really needs to do is strip away the legacy compatibility layers in Windows and just re-create a brand new OS with fresh new code, and then provide a way for people to run their old legacy software on an emulated compatibility layer that is installed OPTIONALLY at the user's discretion, ala X11 or Wine.
And here we are, with (what seems to be) almost exactly that. Let's just hope they really did get rid of a lot of legacy code here, otherwise this is useless. |
I wouldn't say a word at all if the new feature was offered with Windows 7 Home Basic What You Buy With A $499 Notebook Edition. |
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spock
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:11 am Post subject: Re: Secret No More: Revealing Windows XP Mode for Windows 7 |
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| The Grinch wrote: |
Some of you who always bring up the incompatibility issue with vista and started to with 7, can now be happy. |
I'm not sure yet. It makes me happy to see they've done this, since it'll mean they can change some things around which will make windows 7 better. However, it isn't released yet, and I'm not sure about the performance. But it's an interesting development for sure.
However, the fact that they only provide it with expensive versions of Windows is something I don't understand. Why don't make it available to all users?
But I'll keep an eye out for more details, this gives me a bit of hope that they're heading in the right direction.
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