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Jacky
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 Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:45 am Post subject: |
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It's definitely an interesting feature, there is still a great amount of home users and companies still on Windows XP as they did not cross over to Vista due to the various headaches with it.
Many are also planning to leap to 7 because most people would acknowledge the fact that it's the real successor to XP.
I, for one, is also still on XP, and I would definitely be getting a laptop next year due to my studies and by that time it should be bundled with 7.
The deal-breaker here is that they didn't include it with Home Premium. I can accept it if they don't add it into Home Basic but so many people are going to use Home Premium it's going to be the most useful to anyone migrating from XP.
I for one have some EA Classics lying around and most of them can run fine on XP without compatibility mode and there are also patches to make them work better since they were all developed for 98 and 2000.
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| ClickFanatic wrote: | Your nonsense make my forum visits rather brief, Jacky. It's like:
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Xtreme $niper
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:11 am Post subject: |
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If I remember correctly, there were only supposed to be two tiers to Windows 7. Windows 7 Starter, and Windows 7 (for everybody else).
If that's the case, then this is great. However, if they go the Vista route and make Home Premium, Business, Ultimate all over again, then we have a problem... Because they're going to put this feature on Ultimate and Business, and the one's with Home Premium won't get it, which means that they really didn't get rid of old legacy code, because if they really did it would be easier for them to include this feature across all versions of the OS. The code change between versions would be too great.
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ClickFanatic
Est. 2005
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
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Location: 37°45'18.24"N 14°59'42.9"E
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:05 am Post subject: |
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It's a nice way to combat the backward compatibility issue (which we discussed in another related thread).
By isolating the backward code using virtualisation, hopefully, Microsoft can focus more on implementing some serious improvements in their new operating system.
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LP-SolidRaven
Evil Belgian Waffle
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 8144
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Xtreme $niper wrote: | I think it's funny that in the other thread on here ("is vista oversecure?") we've been talking back and forth about how what Microsoft really needs to do is strip away the legacy compatibility layers in Windows and just re-create a brand new OS with fresh new code, and then provide a way for people to run their old legacy software on an emulated compatibility layer that is installed OPTIONALLY at the user's discretion, ala X11 or Wine.
And here we are, with (what seems to be) almost exactly that. Let's just hope they really did get rid of a lot of legacy code here, otherwise this is useless. |
A layer isn't virtualisation for starters. Additionally they're leaving home users out indeed.
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ClickFanatic
Est. 2005
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
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Location: 37°45'18.24"N 14°59'42.9"E
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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I believe virtualisation has also been mentioned in that thread.
However, a layer also puts limitations on improvement, because you would have to make sure that all the old OS functions translate to some new OS functions, which may not be possible. It is also more prone to exploits than a virtualised OS.
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Jacky
3.14159265358979323846264
Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 4175
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| Xtreme $niper wrote: | If I remember correctly, there were only supposed to be two tiers to Windows 7. Windows 7 Starter, and Windows 7 (for everybody else).
If that's the case, then this is great. However, if they go the Vista route and make Home Premium, Business, Ultimate all over again, then we have a problem... Because they're going to put this feature on Ultimate and Business, and the one's with Home Premium won't get it, which means that they really didn't get rid of old legacy code, because if they really did it would be easier for them to include this feature across all versions of the OS. The code change between versions would be too great. |
There will still be 6 editions of Windows 7 like how it is with Vista.
The Business edition of Vista will be renamed Professional in Windows 7.
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| ClickFanatic wrote: | Your nonsense make my forum visits rather brief, Jacky. It's like:
"Hey look, a reply notification!"
*click* *click*
*reading garbage*
"Oh it was Jacky again..."
*close* |
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Xtreme $niper
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Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 1870
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| Jacky wrote: | | Xtreme $niper wrote: | If I remember correctly, there were only supposed to be two tiers to Windows 7. Windows 7 Starter, and Windows 7 (for everybody else).
If that's the case, then this is great. However, if they go the Vista route and make Home Premium, Business, Ultimate all over again, then we have a problem... Because they're going to put this feature on Ultimate and Business, and the one's with Home Premium won't get it, which means that they really didn't get rid of old legacy code, because if they really did it would be easier for them to include this feature across all versions of the OS. The code change between versions would be too great. |
There will still be 6 editions of Windows 7 like how it is with Vista.
The Business edition of Vista will be renamed Professional in Windows 7. |
LAAAAAAAAAAAAAME.
Sorry, but it had to be said.
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ClickFanatic
Est. 2005
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Location: 37°45'18.24"N 14°59'42.9"E
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:07 am Post subject: |
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Comparison of features.
I hear you sniper, very lame indeed.
Just look at the RAM restrictions. How is 8 GB reasonable in a 64 bit address space? Isn't that what you could have in a 33 bit address space?
It really feels like an artificial restriction which could only have been imposed because of marketing reasons.
I also wonder why there are so many packages. I have never seen a software suite or single application having so many editions. Why would Microsoft do that?
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krt
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Joined: 11 Jan 2005
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Location: Down Under
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:19 am Post subject: |
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Lame indeed. I thought XP's two choices were bad enough and came into several circumstances where something that worked on Professional would be different or not available on Home with little reason. At least Windows 7 versions are all incremental, i.e. the next version up includes all the features of the version below it.
Seems to be just for the money. They want the business from emerging markets who would pirate it otherwise as they already do to a large extent so they offer a basic version to them, they want extra money from the enthusiast and business users and then give the mainstream users a version in between.
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mcwkm
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| So what is the difference between enterprise and ultimate? |
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Xtreme $niper
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| mcwkm wrote: | | So what is the difference between enterprise and ultimate? |
Looks like enterprise is only to be used for volume licensing (for example, a big corporation that is upgrading all their workstations).
But yeah, I get why they do it from a profit perspective, because there are a lot of people who would look at the Home Premium version and say "well, if I'm going to be paying this much, why aren't I getting the best?" and then they'd upgrade to Ultimate to have a top of the line system.
It's just not so smart from a marketing point of view because outside of the tech community, all these variations are just confusing and mean next to nothing. What average joe is honestly going to look at that chart on wikipedia? And how many of those features would they even understand? Like what the hell would "Subsystem for Unix-based Applications" mean to someone who just wants to get a computer?
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ClickFanatic
Est. 2005
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Having so many editions doesn't mean a lot to me either and I consider myself part of the 'tech community'.
Most of the features listed on Wikipedia are either trivial (as in, they should be present in all editions) or useless.
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The Grinch
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linuxdoctor
Infallible Persona
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 1530
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ClickFanatic wrote: | Having so many editions doesn't mean a lot to me either and I consider myself part of the 'tech community'.
Most of the features listed on Wikipedia are either trivial (as in, they should be present in all editions) or useless. |
That has always been a part of Microsoft's marketing strategy. They can point to "feature full" software regardless of whether that feature is useful or not. Features that you labelled as 'trivial' will be touted as extended usability whereas the ones you call 'useless' will probably be hyped up as examples of Microsoft continuing tradition of innovation.
And they will lap it up.
Microsoft. Garbage products. Brilliant marketing.
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The Grinch
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| linuxdoctor wrote: | | ClickFanatic wrote: | Having so many editions doesn't mean a lot to me either and I consider myself part of the 'tech community'.
Most of the features listed on Wikipedia are either trivial (as in, they should be present in all editions) or useless. |
That has always been a part of Microsoft's marketing strategy. They can point to "feature full" software regardless of whether that feature is useful or not. Features that you labelled as 'trivial' will be touted as extended usability whereas the ones you call 'useless' will probably be hyped up as examples of Microsoft continuing tradition of innovation.
And they will lap it up.
Microsoft. Garbage products. Brilliant marketing. |
Are you ever serious?
anyways. more info direct from Microsoft this time:
| Quote: |
Helping Small Businesses With Windows 7 Professional and Windows XP Mode
Q&A: Scott Woodgate discusses how Windows XP Mode helps customers maximize productivity and manage their technology infrastructure, while migrating to Windows 7. Woodgate also shares how Windows Virtual PC works with Microsoft Enterprise Desktop Virtualization (MED-V).
As part of the upcoming Windows 7 Release Candidate milestone, Microsoft will release a beta version of Windows XP Mode, which allows users of Windows 7 Professional and above to launch many older Windows XP productivity applications directly from their Windows 7 desktop. The Windows XP Mode stand-alone feature is specifically designed to help small businesses that are using Windows XP applications move to Windows 7. For larger businesses, Microsoft Enterprise Desktop Virtualization (MED-V) MED-V 2.0 builds on top of Windows Virtual PC and provides centralized management of Windows XP Mode. MED-V 2.0 will be available in beta within 90 days of general availability of Windows 7.
PressPass spoke with Scott Woodgate, director of Desktop Virtualization and Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack (MDOP) at Microsoft, to find out how this new advancement is helping ensure a smooth transition for customers planning to migrate to Windows 7.
PressPass: What are you announcing today?
Woodgate: We are announcing the beta release of Windows XP Mode for Windows 7. Small businesses told us they wanted help upgrading to Windows 7. Windows XP Mode, an optional feature of Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise and Ultimate editions, helps small businesses upgrade to Windows 7 by providing a virtual Windows XP environment capable of running many Windows XP-compatible business and productivity applications. Customers can run many older Windows XP business and productivity applications within Windows XP Mode and launch them from the Windows 7 desktop with just a single click. A beta of Windows XP Mode will be made available on April 30.
PressPass: How does Windows XP Mode work?
Windows XP Mode is the combination of two features. The first part is a pre-packaged virtual Windows XP environment. The second is Windows Virtual PC, which is used to run the virtual Windows XP environment. Customers can install their applications into Windows XP Mode using typical installation processes such as downloading from the Web or using the product CD. Once installed, the applications are automatically available on the Windows 7 Start Menu and can be launched just like any Windows 7 program. Optionally, these Windows XP applications can be pinned to the Windows 7 Task Bar and launched using just a single click from the Windows 7 desktop.
PressPass: What types of applications are suited for Windows XP Mode and Windows Virtual PC stand-alone?
Woodgate: Windows XP Mode is best suited for older business and productivity applications such as accounting, inventory and similar applications. Windows XP Mode is not aimed at consumers because many consumer applications require extensive use of hardware interfaces such as 3-D graphics, audio, and TV tuners that do not work well under virtualization today. The sweet spot for applications that run in Windows Virtual PC is business and productivity applications that tend to conform to the basic Windows API (Application Programming Interface.) Small businesses operate under constrained resources and are highly sensitive to the time and expense required to upgrade their PC. Windows XP Mode provides small businesses with the ability to run many Windows XP applications, saving time and expense, but Windows XP Mode does not have 100 percent compatibility with all Windows XP applications. We encourage ISVs (Independent Software Vendors) and customers to install their applications in Windows XP Mode during the beta timeframe and provide us with feedback on their experiences.
PressPass: Does Windows XP Mode offer any benefits for larger businesses? How does this announcement relate to Microsoft Enterprise Desktop Virtualization (MED-V)?
Woodgate: Windows XP Mode and Windows Virtual PC as stand-alone features are specifically designed for small businesses and provide an unmanaged IT experience. For larger businesses looking to reduce the cost of ownership of deploying Windows Virtual PCs across hundreds of users, Microsoft provides MED-V. MED-V is one of the six components in Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack (MDOP), a dynamic desktop solution designed for better management and control of enterprise desktop environments. MED-V is the management tool for Windows Virtual PC; it builds on top of Windows Virtual PC to run two operating systems on one device. Basically, by adding virtual image delivery and policy-based provisioning, it facilitates centralized management. This is a great tool for IT pros who want to reduce the cost of managing and deploying Windows Virtual PC.
Key features that MED-V provides include centralized management, policy-based provisioning and virtual image delivery. MED-V v1 is available today for Windows Vista and provides management for Microsoft Virtual PC 2007. MED-V 2.0 will be available in beta within 90 days of the general availability of Windows 7 and will be extended to manage Windows Virtual PC on 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Windows 7.
PressPass: How do small businesses handle these management tasks?
Woodgate: An important consideration of working with virtualization technology is the fact that the user has both the physical and the virtual PC to maintain. Every PC requires a degree of maintenance including but not limited to keeping the operating system and applications up to date with patches, virus and malware protection, and backup. Windows XP Mode is pre-configured with the Windows XP firewall and to apply updates automatically from Windows Update. It is not pre-configured with anti-virus or anti-malware software, which is recommended. Because of the need to maintain the virtual machine, we recommend everyone make best efforts to upgrade applications to run natively in Windows 7 and use Windows XP Mode only when necessary.
PressPass: How does Windows XP Mode align with Microsoft’s commitment to application compatibility?
Woodgate: With Windows 7, we’ve worked very hard to maintain compatibility with Windows Vista applications. We have an array of tools and resources to help with application compatibility. Virtually all Windows Vista-compatible applications, as well as the majority of Windows XP applications, run unmodified on Windows 7. For those that do not, the Programs Troubleshooter in the Control Panel provides a wizard interface to employ compatibility features that allow applications to run natively on Windows 7. For IT pros the Application Compatibility Toolkit provides finer-grained control over the compatibility features, also referred to as “shims.” When an application cannot run or be natively shimmed, that’s when it’s most appropriate to use Windows XP Mode technology.
PressPass: How can customers get Windows XP Mode?
Woodgate: Beta testers can download Windows Virtual PC and the virtual Windows XP environment later this week. When Windows XP Mode is released to production, there will be two ways for customers to get Windows XP Mode. The easiest way will be to get it pre-installed on a PC from an original equipment manufacturer or local value-added reseller. This requires minimum configuration and delivers the most compelling experience for small to medium-sized businesses. As an alternative, Windows Virtual PC and Virtual Windows XP will be available as downloads from Microsoft.com for Windows 7 Professional, Ultimate and Enterprise customers. Windows Virtual PC requires PCs with Intel VT or AMD-V hardware virtualization technology enabled in the PC BIOS. Windows XP Mode can be installed by anyone with reasonable PC maintenance experience; however, it is definitely easier to acquire via a new PC.
PressPass: Does Windows 7 have higher system requirements with Windows XP Mode installed?
Woodgate: Yes. We recommend that customers use Windows XP Mode on a PC with 2GB of memory. We also recommend an additional 15 GB of additional disk space for Windows XP Mode. In addition, Windows Virtual PC requires a PC with Intel-VT or AMD-V enabled in the CPU, as it takes advantage of the latest advancements in hardware virtualization.
PressPass: What have you heard from your customers about Windows XP Mode?
Woodgate: The early feedback we’ve received from customers on the concept is very positive, saying that they value our commitment to helping them manage their business. This new release reinforces our efforts to fuel business success by providing the right tools for our customers to flourish and succeed. By empowering our customers with Windows XP Mode, we are giving them the best of both worlds. They can now conveniently migrate to Windows 7 and move existing applications that may not have been compatible directly with Windows 7.
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and more: http://windowsteamblog.com/blo.....-mode.aspx
| Quote: | The PressPass Q&A we posted today addressed a number of questions around Windows XP Mode. I wanted to clarify in more detail the differences between Windows XP Mode and MED-V and how specifically MED-V v2, a component of the Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack (MDOP), adds management to Windows XP Mode.
The main facts:
Windows XP Mode is specifically designed to help small-business users to run their Windows XP applications on their Windows 7 desktop.
* Windows XP Mode is available for Windows 7 Professional, Windows 7 Ultimate and Windows 7 Enterprise customers.
* Windows XP Mode combines Windows Virtual PC and a pre-installed virtual Windows XP environment to allow users run many older applications.
* Windows Virtual PC will enable users to launch virtual applications seamlessly from the Windows 7 Start menu.
* Windows Virtual PC includes support for USB devices and is based on a new core that includes multi-threading support.
Microsoft Enterprise Desktop Virtualization (MED-V) is designed for IT Professionals.
* MED-V enables Virtual PC deployment in larger organizations.
* MED-V provides centralized management, policy-based provisioning and virtual image delivery to reduce the cost of Virtual PC deployment.
* MED-V v1 builds on Microsoft Virtual PC 2007 to help enterprises with their upgrade to Windows Vista when applications are not yet compatible.
* MED-V v2 will add support for Windows 7 (both 32 bit and 64bit) and Windows Virtual PC.
* MED-V v2 beta will be available within 90 days of Windows 7 GA.
How MED-V adds management to Windows XP Mode and Windows Virtual PC?
To provide a managed, scalable solution for running virtual Windows XP applications, MED-V addresses many of the IT challenges around deployment and management including:
Deployment – deliver virtual Windows images and customize per user and device settings
* Automate first-time virtual PC setup based on an IT customized script – including assignment of a unique computer name, joining to AD domain
(for instance: assign the virtual PC a name that is derived from the physical device name or the username to simplify identification and management)
* Adjust virtual PC memory allocation based on available RAM on host, so that the virtual PC does not take significant resources from the user
Provisioning – define which applications and websites are available to different users
* Assign virtual PC images according to users and groups
* Define which Windows XP applications will be available to the user through the start menu
* Define which websites (e.g. internal sites that requires a previous version of Internet Explorer) are redirected automatically to Windows XP
Control – assign and expire usage permissions and Virtual PC settings
* Control the network settings of the Virtual PC (e.g. whether it connects through NAT or DHCP, whether its DNS is synchronized with host)
* Authenticate user before granting access to the Virtual PC
* Set expiration date, after which the Virtual PC is not accessible to the end user
Maintenance and Support - update images, monitor users and remotely troubleshoot
* Update images using TrimTransfer network image delivery – update a master Virtual PC image, and MED-V will automatically distribute and apply the changes to all endpoints
* Centralized database aggregates events from all users, and provides troubleshooting information on malfunctioning virtual PCs
* Administrator diagnostics mode allows faster resolution of Virtual PC issues
Run on multiple platforms – MED-V will work on both Windows 7 and Windows Vista.
Which customers should use Windows XP Mode standalone?
Windows XP Mode standalone is suitable for small and medium business users, who are able to set their XP applications themselves and may or may not have IT Professional staff. Each PC has its own virtual Windows XP environment that is controlled and managed by the end user. Windows XP Mode standalone is not designed for large, centrally managed deployments that have widely deployed business applications that require Windows XP.
So in summary MED-V builds on top of Windows Virtual PC and adds important management capabilities. |
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