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kenoodo
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: MengDai
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 Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:43 am Post subject: U.N. panel: 'Urgent' action needed on global warming |
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It is wasting time to discuss again and again whether the global warning is real or not. It is real and we have to do something before we have been expelled by the mistakes we made.
However, the climate does not change in one day, it starts all the time. What we humans are doing is accelerating its process. So, it is not as easy as to switch off the power and it would end immediately. Decades are need if we are luck enough, if not, hundreds or even thousands of years are needed for us to change the climate in the way that could keep us surviving longer.
Read this
| Quote: | (CNN) -- Climate change is real and is happening at an ever faster pace, a United Nations scientific panel said in a hard-hitting report issued Saturday on tackling global warming.
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change was delivering its fourth and final report on the science of climate change and the impact of human-produced greenhouse gases at a conference in Valencia, Spain.
The report produced by the Nobel prize-winning panel warns of the devastating impact for developing countries and the threat of species extinction posed by the climate crisis.
U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, presenting the report, warned that some of the effects of rising levels of greenhouse gases may already be irreversible.
The U.N. head said the situation was already "so severe and so sweeping that only urgent, global action" could head off the crisis.
He told the panel he was hopeful that the report's findings could help bring about "a real breakthrough" in climate change negotiations in Bali, Indonesia, next month.
The Bali talks will set the groundwork for the successor to the Kyoto treaty, which expires in 2012.
They will also guide global climate policy for at least the next decade, and dictate the types of long-term investment decisions made by big industries and utilities.
Written by more than 2,500 top government-appointed scientists, Saturday's report contains a summary for policymakers attending the Bali talks, outlining the scientific evidence for global warming and ways to deal with it.
However, panel member Achim Steiner, Executive Director of United Nations Environment Programme, said the report was also meant to serve as a "civilian's guide" to dealing with climate change. He said he hoped individuals could use the information contained in the report to take practical steps to curbing gas emissions.
The reports warns that in spite of the protocols adopted by many western countries after Kyoto, greenhouse gas emissions will continue to rise by between 25 and 90 per cent by 2030.
The report also predicts a rise in global warming of around 0.2 degrees Celsius per decade.
The U.N. panel -- the recent recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize with former U.S. Vice President Al Gore -- was asked if goals of reducing emissions could be achieved without the contribution of China and especially the United States, which was one of only a few countries that did not sign up to the Kyoto treaty.
Ban Ki-moon said he had "high expectations" that both countries would play a "constructive role" at the upcoming talks.
"Both countries I think can and should lead each in its own way," he said.
Scientists say up to an 85 percent cut in carbon dioxide emissions is needed to head off potential catastrophic changes that could lead to more floods and famine.
However, the disagreement over how the cuts should be managed may well stall the Bali talks.
Some countries are thought to be in favor of mandatory caps on emissions, which could hit the industrial output of major carbon dioxide producers such as the United States.
Mandatory caps are also unlikely to be supported by developing countries, who fear they could be a barrier to growth.
Opponents of the caps -- thought to include the Bush administration -- favor voluntary restrictions and suggest postponing mandatory caps until the richer world is better able to pay for it, and cleaner energy technologies are more developed.
Writing in the International Herald Tribune on Friday, the U.N. head said the world was "on the verge of a catastrophe if we do not act."
However, he insisted that he remained optimistic that international cooperation could still help reverse the damage caused by unchecked temperature rises.
"The overarching message: We can beat this. There are real and affordable ways to deal with climate change," he said in the column.
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Rob1981
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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I think it's stupid how people claim global warming doesn't exist. Instead of making up excuses, do something about it.
One big step that I think would help: stop relying so much on fossil fuels for vehicles (cars being the biggest one). Some progress has been made, but a lot more should be made to help this big problem.
People should use common sense more. If you are going to work: carpool with co-workers that live nearby. If you are going to a place that is closeby: walk or ride a bike. Use public transportation more, instead of using your own car.
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spock
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Joined: 23 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with most points, but I want to make one little thing clear:
| Rob1981 wrote: | | I think it's stupid how people claim global warming doesn't exist. Instead of making up excuses, do something about it. |
It does not exist. Period. And that's not a matter of making up excuses, it's a matter of facts. It has been proven that global warming does exist, it is a fact that million years ago there were higher levels of CO2 than right now and it's a fact average temperatures have been fluctuating for millions of years.
The temperature is rising, but we have nothing to do with it. But I won't get into that since that was already discussed in other topics.
| Rob1981 wrote: | | People should use common sense more. If you are going to work: carpool with co-workers that live nearby. If you are going to a place that is closeby: walk or ride a bike. Use public transportation more, instead of using your own car. |
I agree with that, it would save space on the roads (and thus prevent traffic jams and the economic damages the jams cause), it would make people healthier (they would walk more, ride bicycles more, but the air would also be a lot cleaner resulting in an overall better health)
There are a lot of people who already use their car when they just pick up their kids from school, though the school is just at a few minutes of walking, and in that case, I think it's really useless, and I think those people should realize we're doing the wrong things here.
The reason all those treaties to reduce the CO2 emission doesn't work, is because the biggest countries (if you order them by CO2 emission) haven't signed any of them. What's the point of reducing just a small percentage if the main causes won't change their behaviour?
Next to that, big multinational companies don't care where there factories are/where their production takes place. When countries don't listen to their demands and change the laws on emission to reduce it, those companies will go away in just a short amount of time. That's why most countries don't like to make such changes in their laws, because that would harm their economy.
And especially at this moment, while the biggest causes of the problems are caused by countries that won't do anything to reduce the problem, why would the other countries do so and harm their own economies?
Something needs to be done, but it's a pretty complicated matter, and every country should agree with such rules, and I guess we're still (too) far away from this emission problems being solved.
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Necromis
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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| Like Spoke said. Man has nothing to do with the causes of Global warming, it is cyclical. Just like the Ice ages that happened when man was not around. The Earth heats and cools. However, man should still be taking care of our environment. But please stop making the cause about global warming, and make it about just taking care of our planet. If you think that Global Warming is man made, then can you explain why it is also getting warmer on Mars currently? Did man start living there, too? |
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Rashy
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Joined: 25 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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I am proud to say that I don't drive a car. Ever. Don't even have one, I'm too poor  No CO2 emissions from me!
I was playing Civilization III the other day and I had a fairly large and industrious civilization creating a ton of pollution, then one turn a message pops up telling me that global warming has caused some areas to turn from grasslands to plains. No problem, I can harvest more food from plains than grasslands 
Point of this anecdote: the idea of global warming and it being caused by man is engrained into our society. Might as well just go along with it and get the changes to help improve our overall environmental condition while we are at it. Then we can all feel like dirty hippies.
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Necromis
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Yes but the people spreading this mass religion of Global Warming are the same people that back in the 70s were saying that we were heading towards a new ice age. It is utter nonsense. |
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Rashy
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Necromis wrote: | | Yes but the people spreading this mass religion of Global Warming are the same people that back in the 70s were saying that we were heading towards a new ice age. It is utter nonsense. |
Does it really matter? It will get us to clean up our environment, which is great for me because I like to go camping and suff. It will clear our air and improve our health, and I am sure there are tons of other reasons out there why a healthy environment is good. At what cost? I don't think companies would be hit very hard financially, it is hard to find numbers on this from either perspective. In fact, you could even see new businesses pop up that specialize in consulting on and contracting out work to make your business "more green".
I don't think hippies running around screaming about global warming is something that we really need to worry about. Its not like they can really do any harm 
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rahulmalhotra
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Joined: 01 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Necromis wrote: | | Like Spoke said. Man has nothing to do with the causes of Global warming, it is cyclical. Just like the Ice ages that happened when man was not around. The Earth heats and cools. However, man should still be taking care of our environment. But please stop making the cause about global warming, and make it about just taking care of our planet. If you think that Global Warming is man made, then can you explain why it is also getting warmer on Mars currently? Did man start living there, too? |
Necro, while the human may not be directly responsible or let me put it this way that there is no enough evidence to prove the change, you would have to agree that as of now mankind is acting as a catalyst to the whole situations.
Secondly, we have today composed, mutated and force evolved chemical, crops and animals to suit our needs. Thus, tampering the natural course of things. It has to take affect somewhere
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Necromis
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Two things, first, there is plenty of proof showing that these changes are natural, and not man made. Secondly, I agree cleaning up the environment and using less fossil fuels are great things that I believe we should be doing regardless. The problems I see is people saying Man is causing this, is causing there to be debate and arguement rather than addressing the plant as a whole. Forget about the scare tactics. Simply tell people you are wanting to try to clean up the Earth, not some made up crisis.
In answer to another comment made. Yes we are trying to engineer plants for certain purposes. This is to actually try to help mankind and the environment, not harm it. After all if we learn to use ethenol and manufacture it in a way that is cost effective isn't it wise to have large enough crops to make this realistic and not cause famine. If people want to develope corn that is drought tolerant I think that is great. Maybe this will help those people in African starving due to droughts. Science can be dangerous, but is intended to be used to help people not harm them. |
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spock
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Joined: 23 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| Rashy wrote: | I am proud to say that I don't drive a car. Ever. Don't even have one, I'm too poor No CO2 emissions from me!
I was playing Civilization III the other day |
It's funny, since that's a contradiction.
Basically one could argue that by playing a game you also indirectly cause CO2 emission (the power your console/computer uses basically probably caused CO2 emission  )
| rahulmalhotra wrote: | | While the human may not be directly responsible or let me put it this way that there is no enough evidence to prove the change, you would have to agree that as of now mankind is acting as a catalyst to the whole situations. |
True. But just a really, really small, almost meaningless catalyst. And that's why we just can't stop CO2 emission/global warming, since it's all natural, and maybe just influenced for a really small bit by humans. So reducing our Co2 emission won't affect global warming.
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martinz
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Joined: 01 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| Is there a proof that CO2 emission will is the "main culprit" to global warming or is it something else ? |
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Rashy
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| spock wrote: | | Rashy wrote: | I am proud to say that I don't drive a car. Ever. Don't even have one, I'm too poor No CO2 emissions from me!
I was playing Civilization III the other day |
It's funny, since that's a contradiction.
Basically one could argue that by playing a game you also indirectly cause CO2 emission (the power your console/computer uses basically probably caused CO2 emission )
| rahulmalhotra wrote: | | While the human may not be directly responsible or let me put it this way that there is no enough evidence to prove the change, you would have to agree that as of now mankind is acting as a catalyst to the whole situations. |
True. But just a really, really small, almost meaningless catalyst. And that's why we just can't stop CO2 emission/global warming, since it's all natural, and maybe just influenced for a really small bit by humans. So reducing our Co2 emission won't affect global warming. |
Actually I think we run off of a combination hydro and nuclear power. It would make sense since we have America's largest hydro dam as well as a large nuclear power plant nearby No CO2 emissions around here, just nuclear waste!
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spock
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| Rashy wrote: | | Actually I think we run off of a combination hydro and nuclear power. It would make sense since we have America's largest hydro dam as well as a large nuclear power plant nearby No CO2 emissions around here, just nuclear waste! |
I basically think with the right safety measures, nuclear power is a relatively 'clean' way of producing electricity.
But usually the people that are also complaining about the high CO2 emissions right now also protest against nuclear power.
I believe hydro power is also quite expensive (especially in a short period, building a dam and the machines takes lots and lots of money) though it's also a great way to reduce our environmental problems if it would get cheaper.
Everybody here is discussing about taking a car less, but electric power is a bigger cause of problems (and basically like one oil power station equals a really big amount of cars)
Let's start discussing the best ways to make our environment cleaner instead of the global warming issue itself 
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Rashy
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Well reducing CO2 emmissions is a good place to start on cleaning up our environment, since CO2 is still pollution. Alternative forms of electricity production are needed as badly as alternatives to fossil fuels (for vehicles).
I think I read on digg the other day that a new type of solar panels are being created (or maybe already produced) that are a lot cheaper to make and absorb a lot more energy. I can't find that article now, but sounds like we are headed in the right direction.
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spock
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Rashy wrote: | | I think I read on digg the other day that a new type of solar panels are being created (or maybe already produced) that are a lot cheaper to make and absorb a lot more energy. |
That's great. A lot of people for example want to put solar panels on their homes, but it's so expensive that you won't earn the investment back fot like the next 20 years. And that's way to long for most people.
If it would be easy and cheap for anyone to get a solar panel on their roof, electricity production (at polluting power stations) would already help quite a lot.
And what do you guys think of nuclear energy as an alternative to polluting power sources?
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